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 Posted: May 9, 2013 09:31AM
 Edited:  May 9, 2013 09:32AM
Total posts: 28
Last post: Jun 25, 2014
Member since:Mar 10, 2011
With the magnet ring removed and the black wire from the ignitor off the coil, meter reading is 12.67v. When I reattach the black wire from the ignitor (magnet ring still off) the reading only drops to 12.55v so hardly any...

It is progress... there is more power at the coil now.

This may be a silly question, and forgive me if it is as everything i know about cars has come from owning this little guy . but does the clutch have to be pressed to get a spark from the coil? I am hoping no... just to actually start the car? I have had my son out helping me by depressed the clutch pedal while turning the key. Just not in my attempts today...

 Posted: May 9, 2013 08:29AM
Total posts: 7810
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:Jun 5, 2000


Sorry the readings didn't stabilize.  The following is some unwanted information but it may help the troubleshooting.

The Ignitor module is an electronic switch.  It is on or off just like ignition points... which are a mechanical switch.  When you connect the black wire to coil (-), if the Ignitor is in "conducting mode" (effectively switch closed = "on") then current flows through the module to earth. 

If you have a resistor or resistor wire supplying coil (+), then current flowing to the coil will experience a voltage drop that you can measure between coil (+) and ground.  If the current is not flowing (points open or Ignitor module "off") then you will measure battery voltage on coil (+).  The voltage drop at coil (+) will only happen when current is flowing.  The Ignitor module uses magnets in proximity to the module to turn the electronic switch on and off.

Try another test.  Remove the magnet ring from the shaft on your distributor and disconnect the Ignitor module's black wire from coil (-).  Turn the ignition on and measure the voltage on coil (+).  It should be battery voltage.  Now connect the Ignitor module's black wire to coil (-) and repeat the voltage measurement between coil (+) and ground.  IF you measure a voltage drop (anything lower than battery voltage) replace the Ignitor module.  No current should ever flow with the magnetic ring removed from the dizzy.  If current is flowing with the magnet ring removed then the module is always conducting.  That is equivalent to mechanical points never opening.  When that happens you never will generate a spark.

Go back to points for a while to see if you can get a spark.

 

Doug L.
 Posted: May 9, 2013 05:36AM
Total posts: 28
Last post: Jun 25, 2014
Member since:Mar 10, 2011
Using the meter and attaching that "white" braided wire on one lead, and the othrr to the battery, the reading was 58-75 (it would never settle down). Touching the leads together with the wire, was 0.5.

I ran a wire from the headlamp terminal on the solenoid to the + coil, then attached the ignition module, and there was virtually no drop in the reading (0.3v at most). Turning the engine over it went from 12.35v to about 10.5v still no spark...

 Posted: May 9, 2013 04:57AM
 Edited:  May 9, 2013 05:07AM
Total posts: 28
Last post: Jun 25, 2014
Member since:Mar 10, 2011
Yes, the power drops as soon as the black wire from the ignition module is attached to the coil - from 12.32v to 8.89v., just with key on to supply power, not trying to turn the engine over. The wire could be faded pink I suppose. I dont remember there ever being a ballast on the car, but could be wrong. The wire I'm using to supply the coil is not like all the other wires, the insulation on it is almost a braided material if that gives any clues...

I dont have the wire from the solenoid any more, but had unplugged the hot wire that was for the headlights, etc and used that terminal.

 Posted: May 9, 2013 03:56AM
Total posts: 7810
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:Jun 5, 2000


I assume that your 9V measurement was with the meter probe still on coil (+).  With a "standard" (non-ballast) ignition system the voltage on coil (+) should not go much below 12V except for a dip that will occur during starter motor operation. 

If your dip to 9V occurred without using the starter, that implies something wrong with the power supply to coil (+).  You said you have the white wire on coil (+).  Are you SURE it isn't really faded "pink"?  The pink wire when used is a resistor element.  When it is present, you WILL see a voltage drop on coil (+).  The pink wire is/was used on ballast ignition systems.  If your car has a ballast ignition system you have to wire the Pertronix module a bit different.

You can sort-of test whether the coil (+) wire by setting your multimeter to measure Ohms.  Disconnect the wire from coil (+) and put one meter probe in the wire terminal.  Switch the ignition on and put the other meter probe on the battery cable connection of the solenoid (the always hot terminal).  Write down the resistance measurement.  Now touch your meter probes to each other and write down that measurement.  Subtract the probe resistance from the car wire resistance measurement and tell us what value you found.  There will be some resistance just because of all the connections and the wire length.  However, it should be less than 1.5 Ohms. 

You said earlier that you ran a temporary wire from the solenoid directly to coil (+).  Where on the solenoid did you connect your temporary wire?  If you re-connect that wire to the solenoid's battery terminal and coil (+) what voltage do you measure between coil (+) and ground?

Doug L.
 Posted: May 8, 2013 07:41PM
Total posts: 28
Last post: Jun 25, 2014
Member since:Mar 10, 2011
On a separate note, I was using the multimeter today to make sure it was getting 12volts. The white wire going to the + coil is 12v, stays that way when I add the red wire to the module.. When I put the black wire from the module on the - coil post, the meter drops to under 9volts. I'm not sure if thats supposed to happen or not, but thought I'd mention it.

 Posted: May 8, 2013 06:46PM
Total posts: 28
Last post: Jun 25, 2014
Member since:Mar 10, 2011
I've pulled the wire off the distributor and both looked for spark against the block, as well as using a spark plug test light. The only time the light flicks is when you first turn the ignition on (power to the coil) when the engine is turning over, it doesn't light at all.

 Posted: May 8, 2013 06:37PM
Total posts: 7810
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:Jun 5, 2000

How and where are you testing or looking for a spark?

Though you say there is no spark, a quick test to narrow whether the problem is fuel or ignition is to tip a thimble of gas down the carb throat and try to start the engine.  If the engine fires, runs for a few seconds and dies, you have a fuel delivery problem, not an ignition problem.  Since the car sat for several months the fuel system could be gummed up.

Doug L.
 Posted: May 8, 2013 02:34PM
Total posts: 28
Last post: Jun 25, 2014
Member since:Mar 10, 2011
This sounds similar to the issue I've been having. I drove my car ('78 - 998cc) into the garage in the fall. This spring I went to start it after putting the battery back in and charging it. The engine would turn over, but not fire. There is no spark coming from the coil. I took everything out (coil & module) and had it tested. It all tested fine. I put it back in and jumpered the solenoid to the + on the coil. Still no spark. I changed the wire from the coil to the dizzy, just in case. Everything else in the car works (headlamps, sport lights, dash lights etc.) The braided ground from the block to the body is new... is there another one I'm missing?!

TIA

 Posted: Mar 20, 2013 05:03AM
Total posts: 7810
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnstreet

So the ignition wasn't left on

I jumped the igniter to 12v off of the solenoid per instructions and still no spark.

As a footnote to this, you can only "jumper" the 12V supply (module red wire) like this for about 3 to 5 minutes (max).  A direct connection like that is unswitched and the module will quickly overheat as Mur mentioned.

As a test for this module, disconnect the module's black wire to coil (-).  Connect 12V incandescent test lamp between the battery terminal on the solenoid and the module's black wire.  Temporarily jumper your module's red wire to the battery terminal on the starter solenoid, then spin the engine over on the starter.  The test light will take the place of your ignition coil.  If the test light flashes on and off, the module is working.  Don't forget to disconnect the red wire within 3-5 minutes... sooner is better.

Spitz, the correction you mentioned is in place on the very different "Ignitor-2" module which is not likely to be what is being used here.  The Ignitor-2 module operates differently, does not support zero-speed switching and therefore cannot be static timed.

Doug L.
 Posted: Mar 19, 2013 11:08AM
Total posts: 11125
Last post: Aug 30, 2014
Member since:Jan 22, 2003
CA


I thought the problem with the Petronix burning out with Ign on was corrected a few years ago.....

 

"Everybody should own a MINI at some point, or you are incomplete as a human being" - James May

"WET COOPER" (Terry Snell of Penticton BC ) - Could you send the money for the unpaid parts and court fees.
Ordered so by a Judge

 

 

 

 Posted: Mar 19, 2013 10:28AM
Total posts: 9452
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:May 13, 2001

As a last step check the coil. Reistance on the primary should be 3 ohms. Between the high tension terminal and the + terminal something around 10K ohms. 

The power of keen observation is often viewed as cynicism by those who don't have it. G.B.S. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Oscar Wild

 Posted: Mar 19, 2013 06:07AM
Total posts: 2305
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US


Electric is not my strong area. You have two leads coming off the unit, out the side of the dizzy and go to the coil + and -. You also have the switched power lead from harness to the coil to power everthing. You would no longer need the lead in harness that goes from coil to dizzy. Once you get spark you will need to set timing as the unit will not line up like the points did. I install several a year and have never had a problem. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Mar 19, 2013 05:38AM
Total posts: 44
Last post: Aug 26, 2014
Member since:Jun 10, 2010
US

So the ignition wasn't left on, I didn't retime the engine, no spark at all. I jumped the igniter to 12v off of the solenoid per instructions and still no spark. if there was a poor ground, wouldn't the points not work As well? There doesn't seem to be anyway of adjusting gap between the pickup and magnet...

 Posted: Mar 18, 2013 07:22PM
Total posts: 2305
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:Oct 8, 2011
US


Are you retiming the engine after installing? Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Mar 18, 2013 07:07PM
 Edited:  Mar 18, 2013 09:20PM
Total posts: 9452
Last post: Sep 1, 2014
Member since:May 13, 2001

Do you see any spark at all? If still good it should spark no matter where the advance is set. ull all the plugs and ground one somewhere on the block and turn the motor over. It help to have a manual starter but you can do it turning the motor manually ie with one wheel off the ground in 4th gear and turn the wheel by hand. I fiddled with these a few times and it seems to me there is no easy way to set the static advance other than trial and error. Once you set it going you need to set the total advance to the spec of your cam using a dial back timing light. It would be best to have an Ignitor II which doesn't burn out if you leave the ignition on (without turning the motor) for more than a couple of minutes like the Ignitor I.

The power of keen observation is often viewed as cynicism by those who don't have it. G.B.S. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Oscar Wild

 Posted: Mar 18, 2013 06:41PM
mur
Total posts: 5066
Last post: Aug 31, 2014
Member since:Nov 12, 1999

Is it possible that you have already destroyed it by leaving the ignition turned on, it takes almost no time?

After that, do you have a full +12V powering the coil and the ignitor unit, verified by a multimeter?  Many cars had a resistive link offering the coil about +8V and an additional wire, via the solenoid, feeding the coil closer to +12V when starting.  If you don't have proper power going to the coil, you may or may not get it to work.  oor grounds may also be creating issues.

Lastly, that small square piece of clear plastic that came with the Ignitor kit is a rough guage for the distance between the pickup and the magnet holder that drops over the distributor shaft.  A poor adjustment there will lead to issues.

 

 Posted: Mar 18, 2013 06:27PM
Total posts: 44
Last post: Aug 26, 2014
Member since:Jun 10, 2010
US

Everything is hooked up right and timed, I'm using their flame thrower coil, I trouble shot it via their instructions, and no luck! Tis is the second one Ive bought that hasn't worked, I go back to points it works fine. It's a 45D distributor on a 1275 engine. Any ideas? Aside from destroying it...

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