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 Posted: Nov 16, 2017 05:52PM
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CA
Norm, we had a Mini with a "blow by" issue on the run to Sonoma, California for Can Am Mini Challenge at the end of September.

Our solution was to drop speed & revs...and...we got there & home without losing the clutch.  In that we were successful.

When he got home and focused on the issue...guess what, he had too much oil in the Mini.  The wrong dipstick.

When he ignored the dipstick and only put in the oil quantity specified in the manual...no more "blow by".

Rick/Hunter2 

 Posted: Nov 16, 2017 03:34PM
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whoops, 3 year old thread, hope none of them who posted to this thread with issues are still troubled by them

 Posted: Nov 16, 2017 09:54AM
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It's a bit obvious but check the source of the oil leaks for a proper seal? You say you have changed the seals but how were the running surfaces for the seal? and how worn are the bushes in the output shaft housings? If any of these things are incorrect you will be leaking oil no matter what the crankcase pressures are. And as a mini racer from the 60's up to 1600cc yes we used large breathers wherever we could fit them to a large catch tank. Even with a perfect engine at 8,000 rpm you could fill the tank...............

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Nov 16, 2017 08:19AM
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My 1275 did not come with any vents except for the valve cover that had a hose going to the carb. This thing has crazy leaks and lot of smoke coming out of the valve cover cap.

I have blowby but not sure if you can call it excessive as this engine was rebuilt last October 2016 (i keep thinking it’s probably the rings not embedded yet but it’s a year now). But that’s according to the previous owner and just by looking at it i’m not sure if it’s done correctly as i saw they removed the can and welded shut the timing chain cover vent (why why why??? i don’t know). So i bought myself that hockey puck aluminum baffle and installed at the mechanical fuel pump inlet. I’m still getting a lot of oil coming out so i got myself another baffled catch can. I took the catch can’s drain plug and installed a fitting and directed the mechanical fuel pump hose there so it just automatically flows back in the crank. 

I also have a Smiths PCV valve but currently i installed that to draw from the catch can and took the air filter off and shut it sealed with a cap. My thinking is that the engine still need to draw from another opening somewhere (when not on idle) and i’m thinking the valve cover 1/8” hole would be ideal but now i’m thinking the PCV valve isn’t really drawing the moisture out as it’s drawing from the bottom (crank) vs the ideal spots of timing chain cover, transfer case and tappets on cooper S engines. Would it be ok for the PCV valve to draw from the valve cover and put the air filter back on the catch can and just leave that vented to the atmosphere for it to work on when i’m on the freeway?

I do plan on pulling the motor out later but i’d like to save more money as i wanna be ready in case i find more issues while the engine is out so i’m just looking for some solution to eliminate blowby and leaks til then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffm5150

I'm asking for advice and real-world experience for addressing positive crankcase pressure on an A-series engine.

My goal is to eliminate, as much as possible, the oil leaks from the two output shaft seals, the oil leak from the clutch housing drain hole, and the seeping oil out the valve cover filler cap.

I have a 1310cc A-series, built as a fast street engine that I take to weekend track events somewhat regularly as well as use it for an occasional street driver.  It currently has a single vertical breather on the flywheel housing.  It's currently running a Weber carb that doesn't have a vacuum port, so venting through a PCV into the intake is not a reasonable option for me.

After researching the forum for solutions I believe the culprit is positive crankcase pressure.  Just last year I replaced both output shaft seals and the rear main seal yet I still have a lot of oil getting past those seals - reinforcing my thought that the issue is positive crankcase pressure.  My plan at the moment is to fit an oil breather tank inside the RHS wing and run lines from the flywheel housing beather and the valve cover to the breather tank.

1) has anyone used, with success, the fuel pump breather adapter sold by the host?  I did read a forum post indicating that above sustained 4500 RPM resulted in the crank splashing large amounts of oil out that breather port.  The product sounds good in theory but if it will push oil when running over 4500 RPM then I'm not sure it will work in my situation.  Anyone else have any real world experience with this breather?

2) I've seen crankcase venting setups that run breather lines from both the valve cover and flywheel housing breather to a breather tank.  I've also seen a setups where a line is connected from the valve cover to the flywheel housing breather, then another line from the valve cover to a catch can.  Is one a better solution than another, or is it just personal preference?

3) Being a pre-A+ block there doesn't seem to be a timing cover breather available.  Is it reasonable to weld a breather bung into my exising cover?  Maybe there's a reason that these front covers don't have breathers.

I would love to hear about any other solutions that you've found works.

 

 Posted: Sep 7, 2014 05:31AM
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One way to improve the breathing further (if more is needed, that is) is to add a PCV valve and re-route all of those breather hoses from instead of just venting to the outside, atmospheric pressure, to draw a partial vacuum on them from the intake manifold instead. However, the vacuum in the intake manifold is only high at idle, or on the overrun.

If even more than that is needed, then there are SU carburetors with a 1/4" brass tube located just before the throttle plates, and these are neat because you don't need a PCV valve, and it draws more vacuum the higher you rev the engine (so you get more breathing when the engine is cranking up the most pressure).

These were used on the '71 ~ '74 Midget A series engines as a way to help reduce engine leaks. The system used a 9/64" restrictor hole in the oil fill cap, as a regulated air supply. (probably used on the mini for a lot of years too, but I don't know which years, off the top of my head)

Norm

 Posted: Sep 6, 2014 09:30PM
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US

My thought is more venting is better.  I have three (four if you count the small hole on top of the rocker cover cap), and gave up on air filters and steel chips inside vent cans as they clog up too fast.

One is coming from my clutch housing.  It wasn't drilled, so I drilled and tapped it and fabricated a stainless breather fitting.  The hose just vents under the car.

Another comes from my valve cover near the top.  I installed a simple stainless hose nipple bulkhead fitting and the hose vents under the car.

The third is a stock Cooper S tappet cover breather with the canister removed.  The canister is filled with the metal turnings (chips) which clogged with oil and gunk.   This also vents under the car.

Even with all of this venting, when I rev the motor I can feel a stream of air coming out of the vented rocker cover cap, so i know that letting these motors breath is important.  I also eliminated oil leaking when I added the breathing.  

 

"I drive a Mini. What are you compensating for?"

 

 Posted: Sep 4, 2014 06:00AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixieracing

the gears act like big oil pumps, I had a trani full of oil on the bench with a  dc electric motor and amp/volt  meters   hooked so I could determin  how much  power i was loosing with various  gear settings and clearances  ,when I turned the electric motor on  all the oil in the  trani left in a few revolutions  covered my shop with oil every where.  so all that oil gets foamed around and is in the air   as the engine expells gasses due to valve  and ring leakage   its full of oil mist.  i ran total seal top rings  and did a lot of oil control to learn how to limit the oil foam ,  first was design and  have mini spares make a windage tray, next was  plug the  oil bypass outlet on the bottom of the  block, there is 80 percent of the oil you pump goes out the  bypass  which is aimed right at the crank after it hits the angle on the trani  ,  i drill a hole in the  block to redirect the bypass oil to the  transfer gear case.   pluged teh bypass in the oil  filter holder,  made a oil limit slosh panle in front of the spedo gear to help keep the oil form sloshing around.   ps I used a lexan cover next time and did learn how to half the  power the trani takes, with  gear design and  clearances and bearings .    its in my mini race book at dmrpcb.com . 

pixie , thanks. This is a lot more detail. Much better explanation of the physics and mechanics involved.

 

 Posted: Sep 3, 2014 09:12PM
 Edited:  Sep 4, 2014 04:39AM
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I have run a PCV valve on a Weber manifold for 20 years. Initially I had it into one port only, but this mucks up the idle mixture and general part throttle running a bit.
So then I used some 1/4 BSP brass fittings and 3/8 bore hose to make a low flow balance tube. It works fine. The PCV valve is a Toyota inline one. My only breather is from the rocker cover, as I found the drop gears chucked oil up the flywheel housing breather on long LH bends at high rpm. Redline is 7500 currently.
[edit] There is vacuum present with the filler cap removed and my hand on the filler hole, 1360 engine has done 12,000 miles since rebuild. I have no oil leaks.


Recently I have also water heated the manifold to cure carb icing when freeway cruising @ 110KMH and above.

Here's a current pic of the plumbing. Note the vacuum hose goes into the bulkhead, as the brake servo is mounted under the dash.

Kevin G

1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.

 Posted: Sep 3, 2014 03:38PM
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US

the gears act like big oil pumps, I had a trani full of oil on the bench with a  dc electric motor and amp/volt  meters   hooked so I could determin  how much  power i was loosing with various  gear settings and clearances  ,when I turned the electric motor on  all the oil in the  trani left in a few revolutions  covered my shop with oil every where.  so all that oil gets foamed around and is in the air   as the engine expells gasses due to valve  and ring leakage   its full of oil mist.  i ran total seal top rings  and did a lot of oil control to learn how to limit the oil foam ,  first was design and  have mini spares make a windage tray, next was  plug the  oil bypass outlet on the bottom of the  block, there is 80 percent of the oil you pump goes out the  bypass  which is aimed right at the crank after it hits the angle on the trani  ,  i drill a hole in the  block to redirect the bypass oil to the  transfer gear case.   pluged teh bypass in the oil  filter holder,  made a oil limit slosh panle in front of the spedo gear to help keep the oil form sloshing around.   ps I used a lexan cover next time and did learn how to half the  power the trani takes, with  gear design and  clearances and bearings .    its in my mini race book at dmrpcb.com . 

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 08:11PM
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IMHO it has a lot to do with the age of the design.  Don't forget the A series started out around 70 years ago at 700 odd ccs.  A top flight A series is now twice as big and pushing out something like 5 (five) times the HP of the original design - in naturally aspirated form!!..but still using the same basic envelope/architecture..  Even a fairly unremarkable road motor can have 3 to 4 times the original output..

Block/bore rigidity probably has the most to do with it... witness the move to thick flanged blocks and then the ribs on the A+ (although I'm told these have more to do with material specs).  It doesn't matter how good the rings are if the bore surface is moving....

I don't see the gearbox having anything to do with crankcase pressure (unlike other issues).  It may impact the amount of oil being carried by the escaping gasses but baffles and large breathers, that reduce the velocity of the escaping gas, can mitigate this.

Years ago I used to feed my breathers into a catch tank but found this filled up with scummy water so now I use the vandal approach - just dump it on the road.  (For track use they usually demand a tank..)

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 07:02PM
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hot rod Chevy V8s need big breathers too

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 06:49PM
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US

1.  Long stroke

2.  Shared gearbox/oil pan

 

Check out online images of Swiftune engines and notice the huge vent outlets.  They were not the first, btw.  I'll bet Mini Miglias from 25 years ago utilized various mods designed to allow off-the-chart crankcase venting.  That and they were dealing with hot spots in cooling sytems. 

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 05:40PM
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so someone please educate me as to why a little old mini engine has too little capability to handle crankcase pressure, or too much capacity to make it. If this happens even with good-sealing  rings, then.....

A big block V-8 or V-6 seems to get along with just a single PCV hose. is this because it does not spin up in daily driving to 5-6000 as often as a mini does? Is that the issue - rpms? If that were true, then plenty of today's < 2 liter engines working hard would have the problem.

Lack of windage tray?

oil squirting from an engine bearings onto a thrashing gearbox?

too small an oil passageway between rocker area draining down into the crankcase so that spewing blowby picks up even more oil mist?

what else?? all of the above??? Need a camera inside the beast?

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 01:40PM
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US

seems all  mini engines have to much crankcase  pressure  in racing we would spit out a lot of all oil,   so i fixed both,   made a small can  with top vent to a oil catch can, two side vents from   valvecover  and lifter cover  to the can ,  a fiber section inside the can   and a bottom vent back to the clutch cover breather,  so any oil leaving the engine  from the vents  drains back into the engine  .  worked great   you can see the red hose lines  and the can  on the left of the engine bay 

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 08:51AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyeLooper

So I am having high pressures on my 1275 bored .030 over. The PCV valve coming off the crankcase and has been cleaned and runs to the HIF44. I have a silicone valve cover gasket which pretty much stops anything from leaking (it might have very minimal leakage). The PCV valve on the crankcase is all I have in the way of reducing pressure. The last time I did a compression test last year, I was at 206 across all four. Leakdown test was a very minimal air pressure reduction through all four. Upon startup, the exhaust puffs a very small amount of white smoke. When running, it appears to burn nothing. But I have to add oil every 1000 miles or so. If my pressure gets to bad, the oil dipstick pops out causing an oily mess (This does not happen to often, I think the pressure is on the hairy edge though). My plugs are pretty oily when checking on cylinders 1,2,3, (bad rings)? I received the car last year not knowing how the engine was rebuilt. I think it has bad rings on three cylinders. Winter time project is to re-do the head and valves. Eliminate that, then do the block if needed next winter. In my opinion, I going with bad rings as being my dilemma. To much detontaion bypassing the rings going into thee crankcase.

By doing the head first it will may only make the ring problem worse you may end up opening it up sooner than later. But with the leakdown test you did it and the results you found it would seem the rings are not that bad though. A puff of oil smoke on start up is either bad valve guide seals and/or worn guides.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 08:50AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup Cake

One of these might fit.

//www.minimania.com/part/LJR103470/Timing-Cover-Assembly-For-Twin-Point-Injected-Mini-Cooper

CupCake (or anyone for that matter) - do you know if those A+ vented timing covers will work on an A-series metro engine?  I didn't think that was an option so I never researched it.

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 08:35AM
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I did remove it and ran simple green through it for probably 3-4 hours in a parts washer last year. I hope it's still clean....Maybe I will check again.

When I posted earlier, I was not intending to hijack a thread about my problem. The intent was to show that there are other signs that could lead you in different directions. JeffM5150 you posted about this a post later. 

 Jason

 Posted: Sep 2, 2014 05:51AM
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CA

Brief response to Dyelooper:

Have you checked that your vents are actually working? From what I've read the vent cannisters have metal mesh or something in them and  can get grungy (old oil and collected dirt etc.) and not breathe properly.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 1, 2014 07:38PM
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Have a look at David Vizard's tome.. it desribes a "negative" crankcase pressure system ..and the advantages to be derived there from.

A series engines always seem to have positive CCP.... Maybe its a consequence of the engines huge growth from its original design???

In any case, the problem (as I see it) is basically one of ring sealing (blowby won't go up through exhaust valve stem clearances as the easist path is out through the exhaust).  If you have bad postitive pressure there's not much you can do beyond a rebuild... And if you glaze the bores after a rebuild (not hard) then you just start again..

Even with good sealing you need breathers - especially if the engine is working hard.. 2 or 3 x 1 inch diameter outlets is not unreasonable.  The interior of the engine is basically a single box so the laws of physics tell you it doesn't really matter where the outlets are - as long as they're not being flooded with flung oil - so higher is better. The usual choices are the rocker cover, drop gear case and the tappet covers (if you have a small bore or S engine).  Vented cam drive covers are also an option (but there's not much room).

I wouldn't bother with leak down tests etc.  If you have high pressure then just get rid of it through adequate venting. 

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Sep 1, 2014 07:27PM
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One of these might fit.

//www.minimania.com/part/LJR103470/Timing-Cover-Assembly-For-Twin-Point-Injected-Mini-Cooper

The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. G.B.S. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Oscar Wilde

//www.cupcakecooper.ca/

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