I should probably mention that I'm not using any bump stops at the rear, so there wasn't any need to re-locate the brake line or dress the bodywork.  Also, when i shorten the front bump stops, I draw a line with a piece of chalk at the desired height and cut the tip off with a hacksaw.  I then use a belt sander (carefully) and a file to flatten the top and bevel the sides, turning the rubber block by hand to retain 'roundness'; starting about 3/4" from the top and upwards.  The finished bump stop has about 1/4" rubber remaining around the hole at the top.  A bit of Red Rubber Grease Red Rubber Grease (fx Castrol) will make fitting the rubbers to the brackets much easier.

I don't have any details on the build. Looking closely at the photo, the rear and front subframes appear to be gone. There are square steel tubes above the main frame, which seem to support the power unit. Just above the front wheel there appears to be a sprocket, so it may be chain driven to solid axles. There do not appear to be any brakes - the paddles i front of the front wheelsa re sweeps to deflect debris (stones, sticks etc.) off the rails to prevent derailment. Locomotives, freight cars etc. are heavy enough to crush small objects and have more wheels to keep them on the track.  I suspect the body was put on a track speeder frame, so it may actually have a one-cylinder speeder engine and have an axle brake operated by a lever.

I wonder of those roms are listed on the Mini wheel encyclopedia?

Speeder? What's a speeder you ask?

The Railrodder

Dan what I'm liking, first off, is the brakes.  We should do the same system for the street.  Direct and easy to check for wear.

And the one-piece subframe; gotta love the strength and simplicity.  Actually it looks like they kept the front subframe for the engine, and took out the rear, right?

Air2air: a Mini 'suspension' photo to add to the collection you posted. I'm not sure how smooth the rise was, but the suspension never bottomed out. and it cornered like it was on rails.

Air2Air, you mention a pair of moultons for sale. Please email me a price for consideration. Yours Tino

Jeg thanks - I should just copy your setup.  You had a great related post on this before.  Anyone want to buy a pair of Moultons?  Thanks for the hydro tip Ian.

I have the Gaz shocks, adjustable arms/tie rods and the rest is stock, so I'm going through your parts listing now, thanks.

From memory (it was a long time ago .if you fit hydro bumps to a dry car you will need to flatten the seam at the bottom rear of the rear wheel arch to give the bump something flat to sit on.  The ones referenced by jeg don't seem to taper as much at the top as the old "Scandinavian" stops - and they used to hit the seam.

Cheers, Ian

I'm confused.  It seems to me that if you install the Moulton cones (I assume Moulton Smootha-Ride^®) and not the usual performance oriented cones C-STR687 or C-STR688, then you'll be more or less negating the sporting nature of your much lowered front suspension. 

Not that I've done things 'right', but for my suspension, I've got the C-STR687 cones in the front, C-AJJ3359 upper shock mounts with C-AJJ3361lower pins, C-AJJ4007 hydrolastic bump stops which I've trimmed around ?" or ½" (can't remember) and re-tapered at the top (I have about 8mm free-space clearance between the bump stop and the subframe when the vehicle is resting unladen on level ground), and negative camber lower arms with C-STR632 corrected geometry bushes.  Heavy duty tie rods 21A2091 and C-STR628 bushes.  KYB Gas-a-Just dampers and genuine Ripspeed HiLows at all 4 corners.  I've lowered the suspension such that the driveshafts are parallel to the ground and not further.

Edit:  As for dealing with droop, the standard rebound buffer is installed.

Although I can't quantify it through measurement, I can tell you that the front is very stable, very solid and with very little body roll and the suspension never 'crashes'.  I do have an anti-roll bar at the rear, but am also using std. genuine Dunlop rubber cones at the rear.  It's not quantifiable, but the car feels great (gocart).

I have a frame machine/ jig where I can mount front or rear sub frames and run the suspension though it's travel with out springs or shocks. Using dial indicators, digital angle finders, turn tables and castor camber gauge I can figure what it's doing before mounting in shell. When planning to run low I remove 1/2 inch from the tower moving the bump stop platform up. I also use the upper shock mounts that move that pin up. Bottoming a shock will blow the foot valve right out of it. If you want to limit travel increase spring rate. Racing rubber springs or S Racer red  steel kit. I just picked up a set which are surplus to my needs. Steve (CTR)

Ian thank you.   I'm installing the hydrolastic bumps and rebound buffers front and rear.  Right now I only have the two small front bumps and no rebound buffers.  And definitely am not intending to ride on the bumps...was going to shave them as you say.

My purpose for posting is I'm used to cycling to ensure they're positioned flawlessly, however, I can't find this referenced much in the mini world.

For the question of how much to shave, I was going to stick a wheel on and jack it - till it gets close to a fender or (if) the shock piston hits.   Thanks for the info that the cones will have to come out.  I hit the rear a lot also, sometimes I'll have the whole family of four and you know what happens then.

I guess I'm wondering what required outcome you are seeking??  If you hope to crash your car then, yes, using the bumpstops as a suspension medium is a reasonable way to go about it.

If you hope to set the suspension up to run a Baja 1000 then I think the Irish advice applies.... "if I was going there I wouldn't start from here"  ie get rid of the Mini and buy a truck..

IME cycling the suspension is usually done to measure/optmise caster/camber etc angles through the full range of suspension travel. And, yes, you raise the car off the ground, remove the springs /shocks and then measure the angles as you move the suspension from full bump to full rebound. 

Bump stops are there as a last defence when the suspension moves out of its proper operating envelope. The sudden spike in spring rate as the bump stops come into play does not do your handling any favours.  Most people I know who run extra low suspension heights cut the bump stops down to allow extra (controlled) suspension movement before the car bottoms out (hits the bump stops). 

The genius of the non hydro Mini suspension is that the rubber provides a virtually infinite rising rate suspension. Unlike a steel coil that eventually goes solid (coil bound) the rubber spring continues to compress. Unfortunately there isn't enough room at the front to allow the rubber full freedom so bumpstops are there in extremis.  The rear is pretty much OK.

If you want a rally type sustpension (which seems to be your requirement) then you need to raise the suspension to give the springs more room to move. ..at the cost of reduced ultimate roadholding due to the greater changes in caster/camber... You then fit springs stiff enough to control the suspension through the available range of movement.  Once upon a time, we fitted proper Scandinavian bump stops as these had a degree of flexibility (due to the external/internal shape) that provided some degree of compliance not available from the standard solid bump stops..  I don't know if the modern copies available contain the same level of engineering or just look the same...

If I understand your 2 direct questions:

Yes you will probably need to remove the cones - I'm pretty sure you can't compress the hilos enough to unload the cones enough at full compresssion. (At least not with proper functioning cones)

and droop doesn't matter - it only happens with the wheels pretty much off the ground so won't affect handling.  There is a small rubber buffer there to stop to upper arm hitting subframe at full rebound. 

Colin Chapman's genius didn't end with adding lightness.. he understood the contributiuon of soft long travel suspension to road holding - unfortuantely with a Mini the Irish advice (see above ) applies...

Cheers, Ian

oops duplicate

If you are considering fresh new cones-- all previous is kinda thrown out the window.

New cones will settle over time. until they find their settled point...requiring adjustment a few times after freshly installed.

If you're riding low -yes- Jack it up - but if you're considering new cones- Go ahead - you' are a daily driver and the ride will be renewed with the new cones.. adjust from there after you know your cones aren't squashed out.

 Can also look thru the subframe and see if the cones are squishing out the sides right now as the car sits. or just look like flat donuts.  = renew the cones + enjoy.

Image Gallery

I would like to cycle the front and rear to:

1. Properly locate and adjust new hydro bumps and rebound buffers.  Dry car with no rear bumps, and the stock front bumps aren't cutting it.

2. Install new front Moultons.

Reason: I'm either rubbing, bottoming or in midair air due to excessive gas pedal use, bad roads, bridge expansion joints, and bad eyesight to see the latter coming.  It is also lower than a California politician.

In offroad racing we used exotic systems to deal with this.  To test, proper cycling required removal of the coilover and then you could do very accurate adjustment of the compression and droop limits.  However, in the mini world I don't see a lot of mention of this process.

Maybe someone can talk me out of it but I want to ensure that at both ends of the suspension cycle, a rubber/urethane squishy thing is being squashed - not shock pistons, fenders or suspension arms.  I am guessing that removing the shocks and cones makes this possible.

On this informative previous thread Alex wanted me to just raise the damn thing up.  No, that sounds too much like the right way to do things.  Jeg sent very helpful info that is worth reading again.

The reason I'm posting this ( can't find articles or threads ) is to ask: 

1. Is it as easy as adjusting the hi/lo's all the way up and then using a jack? Or do I have to dig the cones out?

2. Is there a recommended droop setting for rebound?