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 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 03:52PM
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consumer alert!!!!

 

ok..here's an update:

i tossed this orange Fram jurassic oil filter thingie and put the old Unipart.,drained the 10w40 and replaced it with 20w50...now the pressure immediatel kick up to 40-50psi. the temp gauge is at 50% consistent for 30mins ....

i peep inside the valve cover using a flashlight, i noticed when using 10w40,the oil splashes when i rev it,  the oil that's supposed to be lubricating the cam joints splashes away, BUT when using 20w50, i rev'd hard  i notice no spalashing of oil, and quite noticeably, i see it with my two eyes, the oil were concentrated on the cams and moving parts, at least the most that i can see when i peep inside the valve cover opening.... 

my Verdict:---> quit using 10w40...stick with 20w50,,it gives more engine protection...now i'm starting to trust Haynes...lol

and stay away from Fram filters...my goodness!!!

 

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 12:07PM
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//youtu.be/XRRgw4B7R-I

 

my lordy whoever recomended this Fram to me( and he even post a link/ you know who you are/ another misleading tactic) it'll cost me another 30bucks to replace the motor oil)  

ahhh your "Zipper is open)

 

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 11:57AM
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US
 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 11:55AM
 Edited:  Nov 16, 2014 11:56AM
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So since i am too impatient in ordering online and waiting in my front door for the UPS to arrive until 10 at night, i bought this stupet Fram oil filter from wallmart instead and i noticed that on the little holes there is a red rubber one way sealer thingie, i tried to suck air from the threaded hole but it doesnt wanna go, that rubber is too tight, the Unipart does'nt have that, im thinking now that it might somehow prevent  the oil from flowing or decrease the flow of oil and starve the engine...i used it for 30 minutes and my oil pressure went down to 5..almost wanna die, and the temp started to rise to 3/4...i was so mad!!! heck i'm putting back my old reliable used Unipart filter.    Whoever recomend it, i really don't trust this el cheapo Fram oil filter shet! bad oil filter design.,,my goodness, it got my blood boiling now...!!!! 

and i use 10w40 mobile1

 

the name FRAM itself sounds so gay...ahh, im staying away from that product.

 

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 10:35AM
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US

So much misinformation continues to circulate about oils, and before adding anything to any oil, you should read this:[url]//www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html[/url]

Your chances of improving an oil with additives are slim unless you $100,000 or more of lab equipment a good budget for testing, and patience. Or you start out with garbage.


Our engines use the sliding flat tappet valve train, so it is good to have a decent amount of ZDDP. You will get that in a diesel rated CI-4 or CJ-4. Even an SM has more than an oil of the 60's. But if you throw in additives, how do you know how much? Even the maker of the additive has no idea what you might buy. The flyer for ZDDPlus says 4 oz to 4 or 5 qts. because "Today, ZDDP has been removed from practically all automotive engine oils, rendering them unsuitable for use with older engines with non-roller lifters." This is absolutely false. The levels have been reduced from about 1300ppm of phosphorous to 800 ppm, but diesel oils remain at 1200 for CJ-4 and 1300 or so for CI-4 (they say 1500 ppm). And you need less if you use synthetic. SAE has determined that the maximum safe level that avoids cam spalling is 1800 ppm.

If their 4 oz is made to take an oil from 0 to 1500 ppm phos. and you put it in an oil with 800, you will be way above the 1800 limit.
 If you put it in a CI-4, you will shoot your cam quickly.

So stay away from additives. Adding stabilizer has about the same benefit as opening the bottle, and risks taking something out of ballance. The oils today are fully formulated. If you buy a fully formulated MINI "COF" RED paint from the paint store and decide it would be good to add a qt of green because your friend did, will you end up with the right color red?

And don't blame anything on synthetics. The right synthetic for any engine is a better oil, and one that will not leak any more than it's equivalent mineral formulation and viscosity. I only use synthetic in 2 of my cars, but for other reasons, although that may be changing.

BTW: Another stupid statement on the ZDDPlus leaflet: "The viscosity rating of most diesel rated oils is higher than optimum for our higher revving gasoline engines, and can cause oil starvation in bearings at high rpms." Diesel rated oils are available in 5W-30, 10W-30, 15W-40, and (although not recommended) 20W-50. Since when is that to viscous?

 

 

 

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 10:22AM
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US
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

and i always add 20% Lucas oil stabilizer in every oil change on all my older toys and 4stroke mowers.... all runs so smooth and power is overwhelming. try it!!!!!

Whatever you do don't let all that extra lawn mower power go to your head.


 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 07:55AM
 Edited:  Nov 16, 2014 10:10AM
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Nobody really knows what is going on inside an engine,no one can tell which oil is a good  and which is not, engine will wear as to human will die IN TIME.  In Japan they use old recycled cooking oil in their engines and hey it works.... i'd say, oil is oil ...

i use Quaker State 10w40 , it is the only motor oil which pass the Abrassion Test done years ago....i'll try to find the video and will post it here.

and i always add 20% Lucas oil stabilizer in every oil change on all my older toys and 4stroke mowers.... all runs so smooth and power is overwhelming. try it!!!!!

 

this magnetic plug really works!!!  Awsomeness!!!

 

 

 Posted: Oct 16, 2014 02:58AM
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Right on, Ian.

The other reason synthetics once got a bad name for seals was their original formulations with just group IV (PAO). All synthetics today blend certain amounts of Group V (esters, diesters, etc) into the PAO to increase its solvency and maintain seals flexible. A SN, CI-4, or CJ-4 synthetic passes the same seal compatability tests as one of the same category in mineral.

As for molecules, there is a good write-up on the Machinery Lubrication site: //www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1290/synthetic-conventional-oils

 

 Posted: Oct 15, 2014 05:55PM
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"...Fire up your time machine and go back about 30 years, you will find decent oils for a classic Mini...."

Although, last night I happened upon an original 1964 magazine road test report for the 1275 S.  Among other things it noted the use of 30wt oil ..and thought the consumption of a pint of same every 70 miles was a bit high but "reasonable".  I'm pretty sure no one would support such a view today.

Oils did improve over the 20 years (tot eh point noted above)...and have continued to do so.

Once upon a time i was the logisitcs manager for our Army's B vehicle fleet (ie all non commercial non armoured vehicles).  When I asked the head of the Material Research Laboritory what was wrong with synthetic oil - so why didn't we use it??  His response was that it was "too b%^$#y expensive"....  In all other regards it did a better job (IHO - noting that it was his job to know...).  

Having said that one should note that synthetic..like all oils, comes in a wide range of specifications.

In the very early days of synthetics it was formulated for use in aviation turbines and as such was not suitable for IC engines (although I'm sure people tried).  Early synthetic car oils like Mobil 1 only came in a grade far too thin for Minis (in normal weather).  I'm pretty sure that's where a lot of the negativity towards synthetics comes from....

One reason synthetics last longer is that they don't use the polymer chains used by traditional oils in order to produce the multigrade performance.  As these chains get damaged (mainly through bearing shear - not crunched by the gearbox as many seem to think) traditional oil gradually reverts to its thinner base spec.  Because synthetics don't use these chains they don't suffer the same loss of performance.

Having used synthetics (Shell Helix then Castrol when Shell dropped their heavier grade) almost exclusively in the same engine since 1990 (haven't lifted the head in 20+ years despite daily use) I'm sold...  At one stage I had a cheapness attack and reverted to normal (cheaper) oil.  However, I was dismayed at how quickly oil pressure would fall off with hard use so reverted to the more expensive stuff....

Cheers, Ian

 

 Posted: Oct 15, 2014 01:30PM
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US

Well, I was just catching up on what I missed....

"Fire up your time machine and go back about 30 years, you will find decent oils for a classic Mini."  from Scooperman... 

 Yes and no!  Remember how any hi performance Mini had an oil cooler?   Oils of old did not operate well at the higher temperatures we see today.  Todays cars run right at the edge of overheating compared to 30-40 years ago, because they run "cleaner" that way. This means that modern oils DON't require an oil cooler like cars of old..... unless you go back to 'oils of old'!!

 

Also, going back to my own AMSOIL days, synthetic oils are made up of smaller molecules, so they don't seep through seals as much as they find ways to 'capilary' out of small voids.  If you've been around Minis, you know there are lots of "small voids" and some rather large ones in the complex castings that go together to make up the engine/gearbox unit.  Every time I've tried synthetic oil in an older car it has found new ways out!

 Posted: Oct 11, 2014 09:26AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal

 

I run 20/50 in a 267k (original engine/trans) GMC truck which gets 3k oil changes and is used mainly for towing and get blasted all the time for it saying i should run 10/30 but it has worked for me for years so why change.

Just my 02c.

Maybe your geographical location has something to do with it. Up here, 5w30 is more common in newer engines and in the winter we need it. In the winter, transmission oil can feel like refrigerated peanut butter - really hard to stir. And the age of the engine - an old, tired engine could be made to sound like a much fresher one by the addition of a thicker oil. ( Just saying...)

 

True Dan if i was up North there is no way i would get away with running 20/50 especially in the winter months. My youngest Son had/used the truck for around 6 months and used 10/30 when he changed the oil (without my knowledge), the engine sounded no different especially on cold start ups in the cooler months where you would notice it the most. Not an old tired engine has plenty of power and uses no oil between changes. Like i said just my 02c would i do it with a later model truck that is recommended to run on 5/30 ? - probably not.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Oct 11, 2014 06:34AM
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When you don't use it for a while, the seals will dry up. Remember that the main seals, pans, etc. have no oil against them to keep them moist until you start it up. A good oil should start softening them up, but you can speed up the process to a week or two by adding a bottle of AutoRx. (I have a similar product.) It containes group V synthetic oils (types of esters) blended with other things. They soften seals - in the industry we call them "seal swell additives".

While I have blended seal swell products for engines and automatic transmissions, I also use some of the group V base in measured quantities to stop leaks in hydraulic systems or manual transmissions, but I won't sell the concentrate separately so that no one uses too much and melts the seals. (It's also $80 a gallon for the esters).

 

 Posted: Oct 11, 2014 06:21AM
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I don't have any of the answers but do have questions. It seems some can run synthetic while others watch it run on the floor. There was a reason given for this. It went something like bad oil messes with the seal then good oil leaks. Not sure what that says about what happened with mine. Built fresh engine and tranny. Broke it in on Brad Penn 30 wt breakin oil. At $8 a qt don't think of it as cheap oil. Drove the car for about a month. Happy about everything but the idle I parked it on jack stands. Ended up being two years before I changed the oil and started driving again. While the area under the car was clean after two years it is now a lake of synthetic oil. I'll be changing it this weekend. No idea if it will stop leaking with another oil. I'll report back. I don't like spots on the drive or any place I park. 

I'm currently building a second power unit. A basic 1275 metro A+ with loads of low end torque. This is atop a wide ratio DAM5626 runnig two overdrive drop gears and a 2.76 CWP. Makes a three speed box with a over drive fourth. On another thread there was talk about correcting speedos. Mine is messed up but the tach tells it all. Second gear is 1 mph per hundred rpm. So 5000 is 50 mph. Third gear gets a lot of work. The RPM vs MPH are the same in third as if running a 3.44 and the third to fourth shift happens around 50mph. In fourth 1800 RPM is 45 mph, 3000 is 70, 4000 is 93 and 4500 is 105. If the oil leak don't stop I'll pull and reseal this unit and put a 998 back in it's place. I fear a string of tickets are coming my way. Steve (CTR)

 

 Posted: Oct 11, 2014 05:48AM
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There are so many variables that you don't mention, that the comment can be taken out of context real easily.

What year?

What engine?

What area of the world and the temperatures?

Long drives or short ones?

What do you consider an issue?

20W-50 in engines of the last 15 years or so will shorten life no mater what the temperatures are at startup, and it will increase fuel consumption while taking away power. But will you notice it if you haven't used the right oil? Probably not. It is an oil to reduce oil consumption when the engine gets worn, but knowing your repair bill will be higher than just repairing what it needs in the first place.

Mini's were built with very wide tolerances/gaps compared to today's engines. While 10W-40 is recommended for most areas when new or rebuilt, sliding up to 20W-50 in hotter climates (since the Mini's don't have the temperature controls of the newer cars) or slightly worn ones, is an option.

 

 

 Posted: Oct 11, 2014 05:38AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal

 

I run 20/50 in a 267k (original engine/trans) GMC truck which gets 3k oil changes and is used mainly for towing and get blasted all the time for it saying i should run 10/30 but it has worked for me for years so why change.

Just my 02c.

Maybe your geographical location has something to do with it. Up here, 5w30 is more common in newer engines and in the winter we need it. In the winter, transmission oil can feel like refrigerated peanut butter - really hard to stir. And the age of the engine - an old, tired engine could be made to sound like a much fresher one by the addition of a thicker oil. ( Just saying...)

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Oct 11, 2014 05:13AM
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That is why I posted that paper with explanations. Any CI-4 or CJ-4 Diesel rated oil has much more protection of the tappets and gears than any SF or other oil. You aren't rebuilding an engine for using Rotella. Rotella, although not my favorite brand, is running thousands of flat tappet engines around the world.

And MA2 motorcycle should be in the Mini's with Automatics, as it has the right blend for temperatures and clutches. But other than the MA categories (and the old stand-alone MA, now referred to as MA1) doesn't mean much, just calling something motorcycle oil, as demostrated in that paper, does not mean it has the right additives.

 

 

 

 Posted: Oct 10, 2014 03:39PM
 Edited:  Oct 10, 2014 03:41PM
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Fire up your time machine and go back about 30 years, you will find decent oils for a classic Mini.

Modern oils are made for modern engines.  Oil manufacturers do not need to notify the Buying Public that My Favorite Oil is not the same as the My Favorite Oil of the 70s...they own the brand name they can put whatever they want in that container with that label on it.  Today, a lot of the old familiar brand oils are lacking certain things our gearboxes need, because no modern manufacturers needs them.  I hope that some internet searching helps you find an oil that can deal with the high shear loads of tooth/tooth contact that we have.  Without the combination of oil modifiers that can deal with gear contact, Brand X Wonderoil gets degraded quickly and then it isnt doing what you want ... you get gear wear, this puts metal schnitzels in the oil, they get past the filter and run around in the degraded oil, your bearings wear...and so on.  Yes, (some) motorcycle oils have the appropriate gear wear additive package, but they also have the agents needed for wet clutches, those might not be so good for your oil seals or tappets...we need science guys to help us here.  Again, read and learn.  Hopefully, someone more current than I will jump in with real facts.  Me, I would probably go look for oil made to the old API specs, maybe SC to SF, and avoid anything SG or later, or a JASO MA oil meeting those specs.  The last time I tried a modern oil was a Shell Rotel and yes, now I am looking at rebuilding this motor and very carefully picking the oil that I will run in it.

 Posted: Oct 9, 2014 03:36PM
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After running, there is still a protective film of oil left behind on the moving surfaces which takes at least a few hours to wear off. (Synthetic oils usually have much longer lasting film properties, which is another advantage they have - reducing startup wear.) The film may be gone overnight, thus increasing the chances of high wear on initial startup.

Note that hybrids are constantly turning their petrol-power engines on and off as needed.

 

DLY
 Posted: Oct 9, 2014 01:52PM
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I fight with my drivers constantly to turn off engines. idling is bad for fuel consumption and oil life. When starting right up, oil is hot, circulates quickly, and doesn't take long to presurize.

You will soon see cars wieth automatic shutoffs and restarts. A properly tuned engine starts in a second.

 

 Posted: Oct 8, 2014 05:14PM
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I do not have the oil answer, but this is interesting:


A UPS mechanic told me this about 4 years ago .  Their drivers are instructed to turn off the engine at every delivery stop. This saves a minute of fuel X 100s of deliveries daily X thousands of trucks = significant savings.

I was curious how often they replaced starter motors. Like... never. As far as oil is concerned, if wear on the engine is "mostly" at startup, then you would think all those 100s of starts per day per engine would be damaging. Nope. They regularly get 300,000 - 400,000 miles. I do not remember the type of oil, or if the engines are gas versus diesel or both, and all of these restarts are with an already-warm engine and oil, but still, this is impressive. Therefore, if continuous highway miles are good (rather than 100s of restarts daily) then those engines should last even far longer.

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