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 Posted: Apr 7, 2015 03:41PM
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From what someone had said, there may not be enough movement in a bracket to adjust my toe in.....So it looks like I will be going with the shim method. I already have 3 on there and I think I will need 4 more. I will definitely have to open up the holes on the bracket to accomodate all these shims. Let the shimming begin......

 Jason

 Posted: Apr 7, 2015 03:52AM
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US

Not that it helps you but I have several sets of rear swing arm outer brackets. Some are very rusty some new some poorly made and supplied with aftermarket new rear subs. There are several different styles of adjustable brackets. The early ones just did camber and toe is done with shims. Then Mini Sport came out with a toe and camber type. Quite often I have had to weld up holes and redrill then play around in the milling machine to get enough adjustment to do what I want. Recently I found a Stainless Steel set water jet cut and just plain beautiful. Not sure where I got them, I buy bulk deals now and then. I also recently bought a used rear sub frame with a cheap set installed and only three of the mounting bolts were installed due to poor alignment. I will glass bead weld and reshoot the holes and make sure once installed I can get to the alignment figures I need then build the sub up for a hot street project. Wish I knew where the nice ones came from. Maybe I'll take a pic and get someone to post it for me. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Apr 7, 2015 01:40AM
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If you want the bracket to move back, it's easy, just cut some galvanized sheet steel shims to go in front of the bracket. Shim it back from the subframe.

In my case the measurements were in mm, it was simple trigonometry to work out how far to move it (the pivot shaft is ~13" long if that helps).

 

Kevin G

1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 03:41PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMINI

Some of these adjustable brackets don't have enough range to fix it, if the subframe has ever had a hit. In my case the LR wheel had a lot of toe-out.
I got my wheel alignment checked, then did some calculations on how far the pin needed to move to fix it. It needed to go forward by 6mm, so I moved the stock bracket hole 7mm in the mill, welded & filed the back of the hole up, then put a 1mm shim in front of the bracket for adjustment. The RR wheel alignment was OK.

Dr...... This is exactly the information I was looking for. So you modified the bracket itself that holds the outer portion of the swing arm? In my case I need to go the opposite, I have to much toe in, I need to move the outer hole back. My final number at the alignment shop was .52 degree/minutes, if I go with a target of .12, then I need to move my hole .40 minutes. Any idea what this computes to hole movement wise? My other option is to keep adding shims to get the arm out where it should be. 

 Jason

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 02:18PM
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Some of these adjustable brackets don't have enough range to fix it, if the subframe has ever had a hit. In my case the LR wheel had a lot of toe-out.
I got my wheel alignment checked, then did some calculations on how far the pin needed to move to fix it. It needed to go forward by 6mm, so I moved the stock bracket hole 7mm in the mill, welded & filed the back of the hole up, then put a 1mm shim in front of the bracket for adjustment. The RR wheel alignment was OK.

Kevin G

1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 02:07PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by DyeLooper

Maybe I'm not saying this correctly. I do not need new swing arms. I'm looking for an adjustable rear toe bracket.

Like these? //www.minimania.com/part/MS73/Adjustable-Rear-Camber--Toe-Brackets--Mini--Mini-Cooper

Correct, this is what I am looking for. I just need one since my problem only resides on my passenger side (right hand drive). I would also take a fixed one if possible and will modify accordingly. An adjustable one would be the way to go

 

 Jason

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 11:15AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by DyeLooper
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMINI

Needle bearings don't need very much grease or oil. Bushes do. I have seen them seize to the shaft, which then rotates in the subframe and wears a slot in it. I'd bet that's why the 1959 Mini with 2 bushes wasn't a durable idea so the fitted a needle bearing at the inner end, where the suspension load is.

If it was mine I'd put a needle bearing back in it.
Outer bush works fine though, if greased

 

We had discussed that their is very insignifigant weight in the rear of the mini, especially when no passengers will be back there (but small loads here and there). There's part of me that wants to put it back the way it should of been. I finally make a decision, know you make me think again......Ugggg!

My take on the issue:

The significant load on the swing arm bearings/bushings isn't from passenger load, but from side forces during cornering (or hitting curbs!). Passenger load cause the swing arm to rotate on the shaft. Cornering forces impart leverage on the bearing surfaces. NO idea what cornering forces actually are, but the length of the swing arm divided by the space between the two bearings at least doubles the force on the bearings. If the tire imparts say 500 pounds of lateral force, then 1000 pounds is applied to the bearings. But the bearings are holding that on a very small contact patch. Because of the shape of the pivot end of the swing arm, the outer bushing/bearing is closer to the fulcrum point and would tend to experience some leverage as well. If a bushing is there, the load spreads near the edge of the contact surface (brass would 'give' more under stress than steel). If a needle bearing is there, the force would load onto the ends of one or two needles, putting huge local stress into the bearing. The inner bearing, being farther away from the fulcrum point experiences less distorting lever action, so needles survive.

As for DRMINI's comment about the front arms getting two needle bearings each, they have the radius arm to reduce front-rear lever action, and cornering side forces would load both bearings pretty much equally. Even so, I have somewhere, some old front pivot shafts fluted by needle bearing wear. With hardened collapsed old front cones (and probably not enough grease) the bearing needles did not rotate much, but rocked back and forth, grinding flutes into the hard shaft. The needles were worn oval too.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 10:31AM
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US
Quote:
Originally Posted by DyeLooper

Maybe I'm not saying this correctly. I do not need new swing arms. I'm looking for an adjustable rear toe bracket.

Like these? //www.minimania.com/part/MS73/Adjustable-Rear-Camber--Toe-Brackets--Mini--Mini-Cooper

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 10:00AM
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Maybe I'm not saying this correctly. I do not need new swing arms. I'm looking for an adjustable rear toe bracket.

 Jason

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 07:58AM
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CA

My 1275GT Race car has double bearings installed in the trailing arms, they roll smooth and easy, so I saw no need to replace them.

Sean Windrum

1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100

 

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 07:01AM
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US

I have a set of rears I machined up bushings for the inner end and machined a steel tube like the old kits and used them on the vintage race car. No fear of pumping a little grease in before each race outing. Used a very long hone in a Sunnen rod machine to size in line. I did the same thing for the front. There is no rotation and very little reciprocation at either place. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Apr 6, 2015 06:19AM
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Got the swing arms all back together and car is running fine. I took it in for a laser aligmnment. The front is dialed in as well as the rear drivers side (had to shim with one or two shims to get it in). The rear passenger side is still out. I already added like 2 or 3 shims, probably need like 3-4 more. I think it's off about .150"  (.52 minutes accorrding to the paperwork). This rear side was involved in a accident with the PO. Until a full body resto I would like to deal with it anyway I can. Looking for a adjustable rear toe bracket 1 each to bring out the toe. Would this bracket suffice for this much movement? Any help would be appreciated

 

 Jason

 Posted: Dec 23, 2014 06:11PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963SV2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg

Unfortunately, I haven't got detailed measurements for radius arms, but seems to me that if you've both arms off the car, you could probably lay them over each other and see if one is bent.  Nice thing about the shims is that if one doesn't work, lust loosen the bracket (the 2 horizontal 5/16UNF can be a bit hard to get a socket on, but possible), pry it away from the subby and fit another.  Measure, lather-rinse-repeat.

How to check trailing arms???

Once upon a time, race teams carried two pieces of steel curtain rod.  One fitted through the pivot and one fitted over the stub axle.  With pieces about 2 feet long it was relatively easy to check that the rods were parallel....  (If they are, then the arm is straight

Cheers, Ian

My parts are at the powdercoater. When they get back. I will make some shafts that I can put onto the arm to check alignment. Thanks for the great idea.

 Jason

 Posted: Dec 22, 2014 04:03PM
jeg
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Cool!

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Dec 21, 2014 07:16PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg

Unfortunately, I haven't got detailed measurements for radius arms, but seems to me that if you've both arms off the car, you could probably lay them over each other and see if one is bent.  Nice thing about the shims is that if one doesn't work, lust loosen the bracket (the 2 horizontal 5/16UNF can be a bit hard to get a socket on, but possible), pry it away from the subby and fit another.  Measure, lather-rinse-repeat.

How to check trailing arms???

Once upon a time, race teams carried two pieces of steel curtain rod.  One fitted through the pivot and one fitted over the stub axle.  With pieces about 2 feet long it was relatively easy to check that the rods were parallel....  (If they are, then the arm is straight

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Dec 19, 2014 06:42PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMINI

Needle bearings don't need very much grease or oil. Bushes do. I have seen them seize to the shaft, which then rotates in the subframe and wears a slot in it. I'd bet that's why the 1959 Mini with 2 bushes wasn't a durable idea so the fitted a needle bearing at the inner end, where the suspension load is.

If it was mine I'd put a needle bearing back in it.
Outer bush works fine though, if greased

 

We had discussed that their is very insignifigant weight in the rear of the mini, especially when no passengers will be back there (but small loads here and there). There's part of me that wants to put it back the way it should of been. I finally make a decision, know you make me think again......Ugggg!

 Jason

 Posted: Dec 19, 2014 05:35PM
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Needle bearings don't need very much grease or oil. Bushes do. I have seen them seize to the shaft, which then rotates in the subframe and wears a slot in it. I'd bet that's why the 1959 Mini with 2 bushes wasn't a durable idea so the fitted a needle bearing at the inner end, where the suspension load is.

If it was mine I'd put a needle bearing back in it.
Outer bush works fine though, if greased

 

Kevin G

1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.

 Posted: Dec 19, 2014 05:25PM
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So I a couple guys in our shop think I should go with the 2 needle bearings. I finally had a chance to talk and show our machinist (he is top notch) what was actually going on. As soon as he saw it, he started talked talking about load capacity. The steel/brass lined bushing is approximately 1/4" longer then the needle bearing which will increase the amount of load already. We looked up almost similiar parts in McMaster Carr, the load capacity of a needle bearing of this size is like 4000lbs, where the steel brass lined bushing is nearly double the strength. So I will be making a bushing to press the steel/brass lined bushing into. Then this combination will be pressed into the swing arm. I think this is my best option. Time to finish cleaning parts up so I can send them to the powdercoater.                www.eastcoastpowdercoating.com

Ya'll be safe and have a great Merry Christmas & Happy New Year...............

 

 Jason

 Posted: Dec 19, 2014 05:19AM
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CA

If you post your location someone may have a used one near you.  I've got probably half a dozen laying around....

 

"Everybody should own a MINI at some point, or you are incomplete as a human being" - James May

"WET COOPER", Partsguy1 (Terry Snell of Penticton BC ) - Could you send the money for the unpaid parts and court fees.
Ordered so by a Judge

 

 

 

 Posted: Dec 19, 2014 04:03AM
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I can't see a problem with having 2 needle bearings on the rear pivot arm. Guess what the front upper arm has...Laughing
At least you won't have to align ream the damned bush to size..

Kevin G

1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.

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