I am thankfull for all the advice and as we are all different folks i did expect a loy of different opinions.

One more day of work this week after today, then a couple days for the kids,

and I'll have a chance to get to the car Friday.

Now thinking that I've never even driven the mini with new cones, all three that I've been blessed

with never got dialed enough to think into suspension, I've always just been happy to get them to drive and stop.

Happy Holidays to you all, I'll let you know how it all goes

E

With Yokie 539s on the 5x12s (and the original, worn out 165x70x12 Falkens) there was rub on the front of the standard arch....

Rub = need for increase of 1/4 " in height or so.

Thank goodness the hi-los, adjustable lower arms and adjustable tie-rods are available to play.

Steve, did I do something to piss you off? I'm not touchy. The opposite, really. I think you read my posts in a different tone. A problem inherent to the internet, unfortunately. I even put some LOL's and such in the post to try and show that I was posting in a light hearted manner. Please read this post in a lighter tone... try reading it in the oice of Mickey Mouse. I'm not upset at all. My "Young Blood" comment was meant completely as a joke. I apologize if anything I said came across that way, but i've made an effort in every post to say that it's just my personal opinion or taste. I'm glad you've had a successful career with minis, but I don't think anything I said discredits that. We see the solution differently. Is it wrong for me to suggest he try what I've done in the past for the same issue? I'm not saying your option is wrong either. Just offering what I have done. And the OP said he was on the fence about doing suspension work at this time, and the simple fix also saves him time and money. I get that a full suspension job will also potentially fix the problem. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong.

I also get that you don't like me for some reason. My posts seem to offend you for some reason. That's ok with me if you want to avoid posting after me.but it's also OK if you do post after me. It's an open forum and the exchange of ideas should be welcomed.  If you want to take it to a personal level, though, I would ask that you email me instead. The whole comment about me leaving because of robster also said that I would come back once he changed his attitude or management banned him. Seems both happened......so I came back. 

Can the bickering end now? I'd like to see what the OP's solution ends up being. 

A little touchy there aren't we? Last month you were leaving what happened to that? Now you want to be the new Robster? I should have known better and don't worry I won't post behind you any more. Let me say my vintage car won the last two Jefferson 500s before I sold it. The 12 car I built for a customer has won class in every vintage it has run. Nick Swift came over and drove it to a Gold Cup win in group. That was setting fast lap in every session leading every lap in race. Beating out his class the two below his and the two classes above us. Going back I have several MM FTDs and SCCA Solo 2 divisonals and was top 5 national each year we competed. I don't know everything but I'd think I know a little about suspension. 

Enough said you have it from here. Steve (CTR)

No need to take offense, CooperTune. It's a common phrase calling large wheelgaps "monster truck" stance. And I plainly said it was just my opinion. I would rather have the stance where I want it and make the rest work around it. I'm not telling the guy to get out a pair of pliers and rip his fender open. I even said he could probably fix this problem with a little fender rolling. You wouldn't even be able to tell any work was done. And I'm not sure you know what I mean by fender rolling by your "beat on it with a hammer" comment. We clearly have a different idea of how to roll fenders. haha. I lightly rolled my fenders when I had my 12x6.5" wheels that just barely rubbed. Rolled the fender a bit and all was well. I didn't have to cut anything until I went with 13x7 et-7's. And that still wasn't that much cutting.

Just stating that I personally wouldn't raise the car for this issue. But I must be wrong for having a different opinion. Just trying to bring my "young blood" ideas that some people mentioned that this website needed so dearly. Guess only certain annoying young blood is desired. I'll try to retard my grammar a bit and start sprinkling nonsense throughout the board. lol

When I speak of springs I'm talking about rubber springs. Rudder has a softening agent that stars bleeding out as soon as they cool. The ride gets harder and the ride height drops. I have removed two sets of blue springs due to customer dissatisfaction. I'm not sure what mous is talking about monster truck. Bringing the car up 1/2 inch does that? OK you can raise the car a little, reduce castor, trim the fender or beat on it with a hammer. Sounds like a great idea to me. Steve (CTR)

I wouldn't go with blue springs. Heard many complaints of them being too soft. If you want to upgrade your suspension, i suggest reading this thread. You can see my opinion in there as well.

Suspension Upgrade Advice

As for raising the height just to get rid of rubbing... Well I guess I just personally don't like the idea. Monster truck stance on a mini just looks dumb to me. Again. Personal opinion here. If you like the ride height where it is, then adjust other components to make it work. But your ver slight rubbing could be easily fixed with some very slight fender rolling in my opinion. Probably don't need to cut it at all.

Thanks all, much to think about. Always wanted to do suspension work but as I still have trouble tuning the fork on my moto w/o help, it has to be nuts and bolts. If I am going to replace the cones anyway would it be worth changing to the blue springs don has for sale?  Steve (CTR) you mentioned springs, did you go with these and have them settle that fast, or was it just the cones that realy go away? How

Time to work on the car is hard to come up with, too many toys and two young boys. If I can get the ride hite up once and be done, that would be good.  sounds like adjustable trumpets maybe

 in order at the same time, good thing its xmas time. Dan i will try and massage her a bit first.

Again thanks

E

From the pics it looks like you are running a finger to low. Measure ride height from ground to the lower pinch weld in line with the front edge of the door. If under 9.5 to 10 inches I'd expect it to rub at full lock or just before. The Rover 4.5 alloys will do it and the 5x12s will for sure. You could install adjustable tie rods from lower control arm to front corner of sub. Making them longer will reduce castor and help the problem. 

The real problem is the rubber cones are done. I installed new in out car in 01 and while I covered some 100,000 miles in this period mine wer done five years ago and replaced then. I was running 145x10s so there was never a rub but the car did settle to below a good height speed bumps will tell you when. When I installed the new springs I changed to 145/12 on Rover 12s. I noticed last week we have settled since install. I have always had Hi Los but I adjust with corner scales and a ruler. Takes some time but worth the result. 

I'm now working on several cars with 5 X 12 wheels and even have a set of 6 X 12s which are drum brake spaced. These all have 165 / 12s and rub with new springs and Hi Los so we bring them up till they clear. The 6 X 12s  over disc brakes just barely clear on a Sport Pac which runs 175 / 13s on 7s. The sport pac has spacers th keep it from turning fully and the wings are trimmed. 

If you need to run that low mark the front fender/wing 6 inches above and below where the wing meets the valance. Those two marks are zero at the seam you want to take out about 5/8 ". You should end up with a crescent which you can cut a little slot in the flange where wing and valance meet and put the crescent behind the body work and spot weld in place. That way it protects the tire if it does run on a hard turn hitting a bump. You can always pop it off and restore the opening at a latter date. I'm thinking about doing this to any car I paint from now on.

BTW 99 was a long time ago now I'd say you are due a replacement. You will be surprised at the ride improvement. Steve (CTR) 

The spacers don't move the subframe so much as put 'flex' into the front wings, kind of like when you grip a plastic glass, you can make it oval.

With no or very little shimming, a car may rub with 12" tires. Adding shims flexes the wheel arch of wing into a different shape, pushing it in/out. However, there is a limit to the amount of shim, beyond which the arch flexes differently and the wheel starts to rub again. another thing to try is pulling the wing out with your hands at the critical point to see if the shape can be "massaged" for more clearance.

The condition of the cones has been mentioned. Others have reported here that some brands of cones do not last as well as the originals, so check them and maybe get the adjustable trumpets.

The other item not yet mentioned is the knuckle joint - the nylon cup can wear out, dropping the suspension considerably.

I would invest in a set of adjustable ride height trumpets before messing with the subframe geometry.

Ah. Sorry. I guess the word "shims" comes to mind when I think about those spacers. I was just picturing a subframe connected with fender washers. haha

That's pretty minimal, but it's not under any load either. You might be able to get away with just flaring the lip of the wing a bit more than stock.

Image Gallery

Figured it out, new to the tablet things

Those are the ones tmsmith, the cones were nw in'99  and have only seen 20k miles. The stance looks good, I have some pics but can not get them small enough to load from this tablet, it looks like all I need is acouple milimeters to clear. I'll shrink the pics and post them in the morning.

Thanks for the replies 

E

I believe these may be what he is referring to:

I imagine you are running some wide offset rims and presume you are hitting about where the front bumper ends. With five spacers in place already i would not add more your options if you stay with the same wheels is to install adjustable suspension and or new donuts and raise the ride height or trim the metal lip to suit. Spacing the wheels will possibly make things worse. Post a picture of your wheels with them turned in the rub position.

Well there's no "packing washer" for the front subframe. Unless the washers are in addition to the existing subframe mount. Sounds like your previous owner was kind enough to leave you with a ghetto attempt at a solid front subframe mount. So that's your first step. Get a good front subframe mount. And check the lower rear mount for the front subby now that you know you've had a "thrifty" previous owner. 

Second, spacers for the wheels will only make the rubbing worse. Those tires on a 12" wheel usually don't rub, but you didn't mention your wheel specs. (Width, backspace, offset). I'm gonna assume you're either lowered a decent amount or have a fairly negative offset on at least a 6" wide wheel. If you get the right front subby mount, it might help a few mm's, but will likely not fix the rubing issue conpletely. If you're low, and running wide wheels and meaty tires, you're probably going to have to trim a tiny bit of metal from the front wing. 

But this is all speculation without pictures, measurements, and the details I mentioned. 

Hi all,

I am a newbe to the board but have had at least one mini for a dozen  plus years. Current car has just got new (wider rubber 165 60 x12) the tires hit on the outer edge in the front when turned almost all the way. 

I have been looking and found the packing spacer between front panel and subframe ( there are already 5  there per side)

My question is should I just add more or might wheel spacer do the trick?

The tires are already outboard of the arches,  so id be happiest not to space the wheels out, also  do not like the idea to cut metal of fender.

Any help much appriciated

E