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 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 09:36AM
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US

Yeah, this motor is .20 over now so I gues .40 it is. The new shop should be able to give me the exacts though.

I am very well versed in the injection motors over the years of ownership. The stock ECU can handle 100bhp but I feel thats on the high end. I should be around 85bhp (once this motor is running correctly) with my Calver head, SW5-07 cam timed in correctly, and full exhaust (LBC to tail pipe). Even as it stands now, this motor is pretty peppy. Will be great to see how it feels with it all sorted.

I am going to see how it runs after all of this but I have been thinking about going with a stand alone FI system like SC kit for the SPi. I would like the option to be able to tune. That might be later now that funds are going into another rebuild though

 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 07:44AM
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US

Agree - Ring sealing issue,  That bore is too shiny. .. We know you have said the previous builder was bad..and looks same here by these desktop views.-- Bad to the point that i doubt he even honed it- and probaly just put it back together as is. I doubt even new rings were put in there.. (they could be) but i doubt they would wipe away a hone like that asap.  Good words here- Follow coopertunes advise + help if needed.


Probably plan for an overbore, Machine shop will tell you the next size to go.  SPI's dont like major fancy cam's but they will tolerate one certain one off the shelf  + some head flow mods for a bit more pep. Time is now , New cam  with new followers.

 

Sorry about the luck, but thats the consumption issue ( also gasoline, passing by rings will contaminate the oil making it black REALLY fast too!) One further step would be analyis of the oil for fuel contamination, But i would just be going for a Bore + rebuild.

 

Goodluck

 

 

 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 07:36AM
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US

Yeah, the machine shop that did the work is out of biz. Its a crumby story really. This place was highly recommended by a very trusted friend who knows is stuff. Guy seemed to know what he was talking abut and was nice enough to work with. It wasnt until after all this BS that I was talking to my friend about how disappointed I was with it all. Turns out, the original owner sold the place to this guy. My friend had no idea and this guy never made mention of it. Actually said he thought we remember my friend coming in from time to time. Yeah right. God knows what this guys deal was. Hes all packed up and no where to be found now. Whatever.

I am going to be pulling the whole lot asap and setting up a time to brought it off at the new place. The place that does all the work on a multi million dollar fleet of Italian cars for a guy I know. Actually, this guy owns a Cooper formula car too...only he keeps it on the west coast to run it at those tracks. You know, as you would:-) Some people have all the fun.

 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 06:51AM
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US

Just sent you an email about a MPI. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 06:48AM
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Steve contact me on the spi motor please.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 06:45AM
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US

Yes you need an engine builder. FYI pistons are tapered as well well a cam ground. This means the top is much smaller than the skirt tips. They are not round but slightly larger 90 degrees to the pin bore. As I said I'm pulling a good running SPI to install a carb MG Metro. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 06:18AM
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I would say from the pictures at the very least you have a ring/bore sealing problem. Hopefully the guy/shop that built that engine is /are no longer in business.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Mar 31, 2015 05:44AM
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US

Finally tore into the motor last night. Heads off and heres what I got:

So, the outer two Pistons tops look unique to themselves. Cylinder 1 is very dry with black and white crust while 4 is pooled with oil. 2 and 3 looks to be a about the same...wet and cruddy. All the bores show almost zero signs of the hone. In fact, it's extremely obvious on the upper most section where the rings don't touch. You can clearly see the honing marks there and I can feel a ridge with my nail where they meet. There are also visible vertical scoring on the cylinders. Tried to capture but really hard. Will need to pull it into daylight maybe. Looks to me like this motor is coming out and heading to the machine shop to have it checked.

I know this is a useless test but I stuck the corner/tip of a .75mm feeler at the top of the bore when the #4 cylinder was at TDC. That thickness of feeler is not going to bend around the wall to really give me an idea but thought to try it and see It seemed to fit in between the piston top and the bore. I mean, a proper machinist will bore-spec it or whatever to really tell.

I pulled the rockers off and slid them all back and there is a tiny lip (can feel with nail) under each. Does the shaft usually wear before the rocker arms themselves? Should I have them checked out? A new shaft is in order at the very least.

Ok, so this motor has been through a lot and it's noisy. Have you ever seen follower bores go out and the followers rattle around?? At the rate I'm going, I have to look at everything. I'd be interested in seeing what the followers look like and cam. They were new last build but after reading Calvers article on the poor quality of the followers and their uneven surfaces, in interested.

So, what do you think? This motor has maybe 3000 miles on it. I lost track but for sure under 5k. The oil is very black. I change is constently and with VR-1 and quality filters. Magnets on the drain plug, rear blacking plate one added as well as rare earth magnets on the filter. This just aint right!

Cylinder #1

Cylinder #2

Cylinder #3

Cylinder #4


 Posted: Mar 24, 2015 09:03AM
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US

I am VERY interested in seeing what this motor looks like inside now. Well, more so really. If that clown installed the cam bearing in there wrong, I swear I am going to lose it. What a disaster this guy was...where ever he is now. Christ!

Ok, I am going to run the engine again tonight for sure. Maybe even do a leak down again. Things I want to see:

While the engine is running:
1. Smoke one start up
2. How much oil in in the valve cover

After the motor is switched off:
1. What the top of each piston looks like
2 Leak down (maybe)

After the motor sits for a day:
1. If more oil has collected on piston
2. how much dynamite I can fit down the dipstick hole and if insurance covers such a thing.

What else should I do? I am figuring the motor is coming out after this last test run.

Hey, thanks for all the help guys. Always very much appreciated.

 Posted: Mar 24, 2015 08:30AM
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US

Installed one way the rocker assembly gets full oil pressure all the time. Depending on condition of rocker shaft and rochers that could be a big oil leak under valve cover. Correctly installed and the oil pressure is only a couple of degrees of cam rotation per rpm. Spit, spit, which leads to a fine oil mist in VC. If it wells up above the upper head surface above the drain slots that's alot. Lots of things to think about building an engine. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Mar 24, 2015 07:11AM
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US

I am not 100% that all the pistons were dry when I did the test. I just cant imagine that all that oil could still be there after just being shut off.

The cam bearings were replaced...twice on this motor so that could be something. How are they installed wrong? one of the oil alley ways blocked?

Right after I switched off the motor and it sat for a little, I removed the rocker cover. There is oil pooled in the valve "pockets" and also hanging on around the seals themselves. Non leaked out when cover came off, ie the level wasnt over the rocker cover base BUT I let it sit first so oil could have drained back into motor. Should I maybe try and run the car again and pull the rocker cover cap when the motor is warm to see if the valves are swimming in oil? How much oil should be in/around the rockers while running?

 Posted: Mar 24, 2015 06:19AM
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US

Just so I know, you are sure there was no oil on top of the pistons after doing leak test. You cleaned each out and viewed a clean dry piston? Consider there is no oil flow to the V/C area when not running. It is common for the front cam bearing to be installed wrong causing oil flow to rockers to be increased. Level in valve cover should be below guides anyway. Vacuum in the intake track is what draws oil into engine, there is pressure in the exhaust ( reason for no seals on exhaust ) that same vacuum sucks oil up past rings but only while running or after shut down on one cyl. 

Depending on pistons as for clearance most pistons have clearance made into piston. Std bore 2.780 + .020 = 2.800. Easy enough to check once head is off. 

I'm pulling a SPI engine with low miles in the next week or so. Replacing with MG Metro unit with Weber. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Mar 24, 2015 05:40AM
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Ok, so this motor is 20 over currently. Are you saying that I need a .0015 clearance? What would that make the total number I am looking for? When I pull the head/motor I will most likely be bringing it to a shop ot inspect.


Heres the thing about the pooling oil. I havent started the car since the night I tested the compression and leak. I ran the car around a bit and then did the compression and then leak down test. I then rolled the car back into the garage where it has sat. If all that oil is coming from past the rings, it would have been burnt and sent out the exhaust. I am thinking this pool of oil is coming from above as the car has been sitting.

Like everything with this car I feel there are multiple problems. Sure the oil may be coming from the valves but I think that it might also be coming from the rings. I think I have to just pull the damn thing.

 Posted: Mar 24, 2015 03:42AM
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US

I have read over this a couple of times seeing it last night. I workrd at a local auto machine shop from 1975 though 2000. I left in 2000 to do other things with my life. Several years back now I took in three 1275 blocks with the new pistons for each. The new pistons carry a very small clearance by design. Not until I assembled the first and ran it on my engine test stand did I realize rather tham .0015 I was given .0045 clearance. I have mikes and as a rule double check the work. For some reason I did not check that one. It puffed smoke on the test stand and when looking down plug hole the piston dishes puddled oil. I'm glad I'm not a 1380 guy but more a .020 O/S approach. I pulled that unit down and checked the other two all were the same. The machine shop redid machine work on another block and paid for rings for the first. I supplied .040 pistons for the other two and they were taken out to match. They also agreed to help me with the homes for the new .020 pistons at a later date N/C. Having had the heads done at the same time I took them back to the shop and had all ports vacuum tested. I also machined a alloy plate to seal the block and and leak test without head just to be sure. Not sure but it sounds like you may be pumping oil past the rings. Steve (CTR)

PS: I feel for you as these injected cars are so much fun to work on.  

 Posted: Mar 24, 2015 02:33AM
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I vote head gasket as well because of a recent experience.  Oil was coming out between the block & head so it was a no brainer as to the cause.  Oil will migrate all over the top of the block if the gasket is compromised around the passageway.  In your case it may only be leaking into the cylinder(s).


 Posted: Mar 23, 2015 09:18PM
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GB

300 miles to one of your tiddley little quarts isn't so bad.
Tubbs is doing about 70 miles per pint at the moment !!

Looks like a battleship making smoke as she drives past...

Pull the head carefully and check the gasket.  Out of interest, which type did you use ?

 Posted: Mar 23, 2015 08:28PM
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Yeah, that's what I have been thinking. That's a lot of oil. 

I went out and had a look tonight. The seals all look like they should. That doesn't mean much if they weren't built to spec but who knows. 

I tried my best to see inside the cylinders, at the tops of the pistons. Strange things. Cylinder one has dry black and white spots/deposits all over it. Two and three were wet with oil as I would expect but the forth, the piston dish was actually filled with oil. Like a pool. that's not so good!!

 Posted: Mar 23, 2015 05:59PM
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I can't imagine a quart of oil in 300 miles being valves stem seals. Since you don't trust the machine guy that did the engine, I would check the piston to cylinder clearance. Recently I had a Mazda that burned a quart every 200 miles it was because the previous owner never changed the oil and at 90k I had to rebuild and the cylinders/pistons were worn and oil rings stuck. It smoked like a train like you say yours does. When I rebuilt my Mini Spi, it doesn't burn any oil between oil changes and the oil is almost as clean as when I put it in 3,000 miles earlier.

 Posted: Mar 23, 2015 04:13PM
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Thanks Alex though i dont think that's my issue as I only have air in the crank. Also, oil isn't going everywhere. I have read where that happens. i removed the dipstick and did the test and was thinking I might see oil coming out but no. 

Thanks also on the rocking At TDC. I feel better knowing that's right. I may go out and try it again But use a dial gauge (if mines long enough (joke away guys)) to really get it right. Just to see what I get. Others I am not sure where else to go. I'll visual check the valve seals on the car and see if any look deformed Or smashed. Short of that, what else can I do but rip off the head?

 Posted: Mar 23, 2015 01:11PM
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GB

To cheer you up a tad, it could just be the head gasket.

I had similar issues with Betty recently, and the gasket had lifted across the back between the fire rings and pushrod holes on all four cylinders. 
The leakdown test had air whistling out of the everywhere, and driving pressurised everything to such a degree that the seals and o-ring dipstick couldn't hold the pressure.
New set of high tensile head studs and all seems to be well.

Slarks rock the car at TDC to get the rings to seal properly when doing a leakdown, and they know what they are doing.

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