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 Posted: Apr 11, 2015 08:32PM
Total posts: 60
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Image Gallery

I thought I'ld add to this brief thread, the following update .... I don't have pic of my original brake switch install, but here are the pictures I used to emulate my install.

And here is the new install by my mechanic friend.  Note the second photo shows a hole in the brake assembly to the left of the new install.  I had originally fabricated a bracket, similar to that in the photo above, to hold the brake switch block, using that hole.

Again, the brake system is working well now, it seems, after a 10 mile drive across town from the mechanic shop.

Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!

 Posted: Apr 10, 2015 05:35AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoren

This is hopefully a shorter thread, but in actuality is a continuation of the recent thread about the rears brakes locking up.  As noted there now replaced Master Cylinder, Proportioning Valve, and new 5/8" rear brake cylinders.  I've put the all four wheels of the car up on stands.  Started the car, ran it through some gears and found that the front discs (7.5") were yet tight after applying the brake.  The pedal, by the way, felt like it had little play.    

I had to find again, this note by C. Heleker that indicated I had the discs upside down (i.e on the opposite sides):  "....... It is not unusual for them to be installed upside down. The bleed valve should be at the top. If it is at the bottom, you'll need to switch the calipers side to side."   I have no idea why I installed them incorrectly.  

This photo, disc before.    

                

This photo, disc after (this is a picture on another car, but the bleed valve is now up, on the PUP):

So, now another test on stands, start up, put thru gears and hit brake pedal.  Still very little play, kills the engine with much pressure.  Rear drums, after shutting off, turn suitably.  Front disc are yet very tight.  A little less on the front left, and won't budge on the front right.  

(Point in question, while running the motor, and putting into gear [1st and 2nd] the left rotor turned, but the right rotor did not turn.  Is this normal?  Or is the right caliper malfunctioning?)  ( I expect this isn't likely, but is the R rotor causing both front discs to be tight)

My assistant, who pushed the pedal, while bleeding the brakes indicated that the pedal felt particulary resistant when the right disc was being bled.

 

 

"This is hopefully a shorter thread" Nah !!!! not this time :-)

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Apr 10, 2015 04:57AM
 Edited:  Apr 10, 2015 04:57AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg

Cool!  There are some great folks on here, glad you got it sorted.

Dan, yeah, well, I've been distracted lately, lot on my mind and some wierd happenings... 

... as in your avatar?

Yeah, I'm aware you haven't been as active here lately, and I know you're typically a ready source of quality advice and information. I hope things smooth out for you.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 07:23PM
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US
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimans
Quote:
Originally Posted by swindrum

I too am guilty of sitting on this tidbit, but, in my defense, it didn't really occur to me as when I think about Mini brake light switches, I think of the hydraulic, in-line switch that is common on the early models and the ADO-16s... Sorry about that Motoren!

 

Ditto for me too! didnt think about a mechanical switch till you post toward the end. but this does highlight a problem for us folks that try to help/diagnose problems via the internet. Sometimes we don't get all the info because the poster doesnt relize it's important or relevent to the problem at hand. Too much info is preferable to too little...............

Yeah, it's kinda like reading an Agatha Christie mystery novel.... Except, in this case, the little clue wasn't revealed in the first chapter....

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 06:49PM
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Also a different pedal box has been installed. The pedal box frame is pretty much the same on most Mini's but i believe the later servo type has a different style brake pedal near the point where the master attaches. If he was running the car with the same box assembly he needs to compare the length of the master cylinder rods, after looking at the brake light switch which seems like it may be the culprit.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 05:24PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swindrum

I too am guilty of sitting on this tidbit, but, in my defense, it didn't really occur to me as when I think about Mini brake light switches, I think of the hydraulic, in-line switch that is common on the early models and the ADO-16s... Sorry about that Motoren!

 

Ditto for me too! didnt think about a mechanical switch till you post toward the end. but this does highlight a problem for us folks that try to help/diagnose problems via the internet. Sometimes we don't get all the info because the poster doesnt relize it's important or relevent to the problem at hand. Too much info is preferable to too little...............

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 04:18PM
jeg
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Cool!  There are some great folks on here, glad you got it sorted.

Dan, yeah, well, I've been distracted lately, lot on my mind and some wierd happenings... 

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 03:58PM
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Just got a call from mechanic who used to race classic Minis: he got the engine tuned so it runs ok.  and he removed my fabricated bracket that held the square block for the switch.  shaved some of the switch mounting block and reistalled the switch. He reports all is now well with brake system and brake lights.  The tip this morning lead him to the switch positioning issue.  After some a small amount if exhaust work, hopefully can go across town and drive it home early next week. 

 

 

Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 03:03PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoren

I just appreciate all the insights.  there were issues other than the brake switch that needed to be addressed.  and the mechanic that is doing the tuning was informed this AM about the switch being a potential problem child.

Just remember now that if you have two gaskets installed the problem will not be as bad (or not even there) and also when you have installed all the gaskets you need (presuming the brake switch is not the culprit) you will need to adjust the switch accordingly, the switches are all threaded and easily adjustable as long as the mounting bracket is in the correct place.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 11:39AM
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I just appreciate all the insights.  there were issues other than the brake switch that needed to be addressed.  and the mechanic that is doing the tuning was informed this AM about the switch being a potential problem child.

Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 11:03AM
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CA

I too am guilty of sitting on this tidbit, but, in my defense, it didn't really occur to me as when I think about Mini brake light switches, I think of the hydraulic, in-line switch that is common on the early models and the ADO-16s... Sorry about that Motoren!

 

Sean Windrum

1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100

 

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 10:35AM
 Edited:  Apr 9, 2015 10:39AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg

It was a long time ago, but I think I needed to shorten the plunger by about 1/8" on my electric brake light switch in order for it to install/work correctly.

So, jeg, you've been sitting back for about 2 weeks 3 weeks watching him sweat about everything else barake related including shoe size before you dropped this little gem of wisdom? Or have you been too busy on your own projects?

(remind me to stay on your "good' side haha!)

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Apr 9, 2015 06:58AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg

It was a long time ago, but I think I needed to shorten the plunger by about 1/8" on my electric brake light switch in order for it to install/work correctly.        

Wow.  if that worked I'll keep it in mind. But again would be something that logically should not have to be done, just as shimming the MC should not be necessary.  I am guessing the distance of the plunger (I called it the button) movement is in relationship to where it is mounted.  I'm wondering, NOW, if there are any specs / measurements anywhere about how/where it should be installed.

 

 

 

Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!

 Posted: Apr 8, 2015 10:49PM
jeg
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It was a long time ago, but I think I needed to shorten the plunger by about 1/8" on my electric brake light switch in order for it to install/work correctly.

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Apr 8, 2015 08:42PM
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Really good points regarding the brake switch at the pedal arm; from minimans and swindrum, and concurance from malsal.    

     I'm trying to remember, if I adjusted it just before these problems began, possibly.  If I remember correctly, I was having trouble getting the brake lights to go on.  Let's see, for my install, the mechanical brake switch has a button that presses onto the pedal arm, and is the button is compressed into the switch when the brake pedal is not pushed (and as you guys are saying, if this isn't adjusted correctly it can prevent the pedal from swinging fully back toward the driver).  When the brake pedal is pushed, the switch button extends enought to activate the power to the brake lights. For my install, I had to make a judgement as to at what location the switch would touch the brake pedal.  I used as reference for the install some photos of such an install, found on a message board, perhaps North American Motoring?  Or here on MiniMania?  Anyway, I will definitely look at this as a culprit, again.  I had kinda discharged it as having any relationship, because my brake light works, but there is more to rechecked. 

      If I had anticipated this much challenge I would have advised myself to make a journal of every repair step I take.  But of course I didn't,  so memory is suggesting there may be a relationship.  swindrum's mention that the symptoms were the same, does strike a loud bell!    The car is off for tuning presently, but when moving it last night I still had some problem. S o, instead of two hard gaskets, I have been thinking I'll need to add a third.  I just need that added play it would provide.    Now, this brake switch discussion, could be of greater importance.  

Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!

 Posted: Apr 8, 2015 09:21AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimans

You fitted a mechanical brake switch? now are you sure that that is not preventing the pedal from returning all the way? what is happening here is the master cylinder is not travelling all the way to the off positon therefore not uncovering the exhaust port fully or at all, this is what is keeping the brakes on. Make sure that the master cylinder OP rod is free and has some free play when the brakes are released/at rest

^Beat me to it! I had an MGBGT years ago with an overly adjusted brake light switch, it would not let the pedal return all the way and caused EXACTLY what you are describing.

Sean Windrum

1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100

 

 Posted: Apr 7, 2015 12:57PM
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Good point Paul.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Apr 7, 2015 12:30PM
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You fitted a mechanical brake switch? now are you sure that that is not preventing the pedal from returning all the way? what is happening here is the master cylinder is not travelling all the way to the off positon therefore not uncovering the exhaust port fully or at all, this is what is keeping the brakes on. Make sure that the master cylinder OP rod is free and has some free play when the brakes are released/at rest

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Apr 7, 2015 10:43AM
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Understood.thanks.  Which makes me think about my install process.  I have been connecting the clevis pin first then tightening the MC bolts.  If the clevis isn't aligning well I won't know what has occurred.  I'm sure at this point someone should point out "to refer to the Haynes manual for correct uninstall/install steps", so... I will; to pre-empt that strike!    .  If I  have been doing those steps incorrectly (the bible Haynes is not available presently to check what it says) that would have been the first issue to address!

 

Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!

 Posted: Apr 7, 2015 10:07AM
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Rather than pulling both masters off again and risking not having enough threads due to the thickness of the gaskets i would shorten the master push rod or as previously stated look into the brake pedal to see if it is correct. When you remove  the clevis pin that holds the master to the brake pedal pivot point look to see if the holes are close to being aligned, that should give you an indication of how much you need to raise the master cylinder.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

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