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 Posted: Jun 25, 2015 05:31PM
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Have been getting fumes inside my van.  The tape on the rear doors a great idea.  Trip to local muffler shop and presto, no fumes!

 Posted: Jun 16, 2015 03:13AM
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CA

ohhh..... BLING !!! four centre exits must be better than one!

Yes, I vaguely remember the movie "Mrs Miniver" and moreso Greer Garson. Thanks for the clarifications.

As for the small hole, you could stuff some JB Weld in, but that location shouldn't be much of a noisemaker. On the other hand, the hole "could" be a condensate drain - I had an 1989 Dodge Caravan whose muffler had a factory-made one - I thought it had a hole in it until I closely inspected.

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Jun 15, 2015 02:33PM
 Edited:  Jun 15, 2015 03:35PM
jeg
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I'll be speaking to Chris again tomorrow - the RC40 has a small pin hole leak in the weld on the underside where the tailpipe exits the rear silencer.  There's a relatively small sooty tell-tail stain which I knew about, but suspected that there could have been something more dramatic where it's harder to see without a lift.  The mini sounds like a Welsh-born Mongolian throat singer at idle, but howls like a WW2 bomber at crescendo's peak.

Since the leak is very small and not 'critical', I'll need to weigh my options once again. 

  1. Run the current RC40 until it needs replacement.
  2. Save some money and a buy new RC40 and take my chances that it's properly made. 
  3. Buy a better-made albeit more expensive Maniflow twin-box side-exit system.
  4. Buy a more-or-less bespoke 1.75" tubing large-box center exit twin-box Maniflow system which Chris at Maniflow tells will be the quietest solution without sacrificing performance.
  5. Freak everyone out and throw sensibility to the wayside with an 'exotic yet impractical' Maniflow 1.75" tubing twin-box center exit E-type rear twin-box system.

 or

Decisions... 

The mini is and has been 'Mrs. Miniver' since I bought it in 1999.  The wife became known as 'Hyacinth' shortly thereafter.

[Mrs. Miniver - Greer Garson film - Greer was quite fetching back then, and in the film, rather plucky.  I thought it fitting, besides, one can't spell Mrs. Miniver without 'Mini'.]

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Jun 15, 2015 07:50AM
 Edited:  Jun 15, 2015 07:52AM
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CA

Interesting.... If I was to do it again, I'd go for the twin-box whatever. My RC40 is tight, so no untoward noises from it, but it is loud 'on full chat' as Henry S. Manney used to write. At idle it is like dark chocolate - rich and mellow and pleasing.

I had to read your post a couple of times - you mean after all these years, your wife isn't named "Hyacinth"? (It took me long enough to discern that the name was referring to your wife and not your car!) When you said "(Chris and I chuckled at the fact that I refer to her as Hyacinth)", at first I thought her name was Chris, but a full re-read got me sorted out... I think. I must be working too hard!

My exhaust system seems tight and things are much improved - still a bit of ingress at highway speeds. I still have some tailpipe experimenting to do. I think I'll try wedging a smaller diameter straight tailpipe inside and play with the length.

Side note: on my first Mini, an 850 Countryman, I replaced the peashooter tailpipe once - the part I bought was stock diameter but about a foot too long. It may have been a saloon tailpipe or a generic one with the right diameter and bend. at idle it produced a weird but not umplasant sound somewhere between a whistle and a hum. Sort of pipe-organ-ish, in the flutes or reeds. The sound intrigued me, but I cut the pipe to the appropriate length.

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Jun 12, 2015 04:47PM
jeg
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Dan, I though this might interest you - I may be joining the center-exit crowd.

My older twin-box RC40 system has become very loud lately so I'm looking at a replacement system for the 998.

So, whilst investigating some different options (RC40, Maniflow, Ansa Marmitte (would need adaptation) etc...) I spoke with Chris at Maniflow today and asked him how the 1.75" twin-box Maniflow side exit system compares to the twin-box RC40 with respect to noise levels. He recons that the twin-box Maniflow system will in fact be the same or perhaps quieter than the RC40; especially the newest produced RC40 systems which vary in quality depending upon 'who' manufactured that particular batch.

Here's the interesting bit: After I'd explained that my wife (Chris and I chuckled at the fact that I refer to her as Hyacinth) and I are both over 50 years old and she's too 'fine' to ride in a lowered, stiff and noisy car, he offered to make a large center exit box  system in 1.75" tubing. 

This is the system, found in the 'Competition' section of the website, but using 1.75" center-box pipe and rear box inlet/outlet w/out the need for a 2" adapter //www.maniflow....9&product=1372

Chris believes that this'll be even quieter than the commonly available standard Maniflow products without any loss of performance.

I've got an appointment tomorrow at a friends garage where we can put the mini on a lift and see whether or not my current RC40 system has a leaking joint or other defect before I order a new exhaust system.  If it does have some sort of defect, Chris will be receiving a phone call on Monday.

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: May 20, 2015 05:29AM
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CA

John, sure! anytime!

However, it would probably take more time to package each manifold up than to do it yourself.

All you need is a vice, a flat file, a small sheet of flat glass and a few drops of oil.

I imagine you would know how to use a file and vice by now.Wink The glass and oil trick was taught to me when I was about 14 by my uncle Bob (a machinist) to check the flatness of mating surfaces such as on carb flanges, thermostat housings etc. You smear a thin layer of oil on the surface and place the glass on it. The surface tension of the oil allows the glass to look "wet" where the plane of the glass and the subject part are closest. if you had 2 or 3 high spots, they will be shown. Low spots appear as gaps in the oil film. As you flatten the surface, the oil film spreads and become more even. The goal is to get an even film covering the area necessary for a good seal using a gasket or sealant. (But maybe you knew that too!)

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 19, 2015 02:51PM
jeg
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Dan, those manifold flanges look great!  I'll send my Freeflow manifold to you when I'm finished with this latest distributor advance cam/stop project (need to talk to KC) and have driven sufficiently to warrant an oil change; the installed wideband sensor bung necessitates my popping a CV joint from the diff to remove the manifold.

Alternatively, if you prefer to start on my LCB and receive the Freeflow later on, I can do that. 

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: May 19, 2015 01:01PM
 Edited:  May 19, 2015 02:14PM
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CA

First drive update:

The exhaust smell seems to be reduced by about 70% on a brief drive up to 120kph with the driver's window open. Still a bit, but much improved.

The next "project" will be to improve the crankcase ventilation management. I'll start a fresh thread for that.

See MIni_crankcase_ventilation_-proper

Thanks Guys!

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 19, 2015 12:56PM
 Edited:  May 19, 2015 12:58PM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet

Thanks jeg.

Colourful responses! makes me think this should be "Project Stinky...... in Technicolour!"

So far, I managed to get everything apart and some photos. But our little digital camera won't yield some of the photos which for some reason went to its internal memory and not to the SD card.

Here's some of the photos. Everything seemed tight and it took quite a white to separate the front joint - I had a rope turnbuckle tied to the rear muffler bracket and to the garage wall, and with alot of BFH, it eventually came out.

The front joint was a wee bit sooty outside but no big deal. Inside, the joint was also clean except for a small patch on the upper side, in the last picture where pipe end appears closest to the headlight.

The manifold gasket came out in one piece and was backwards, but there was no evidence of leakage at the exhaust ports. (Those pics are stuck in the camera..... maybe tomorrow.)

 

 

Judging by your first picture and the black soot present and also cleaned off the rear valance it seems that the car either is running rich (or was at some time) Dan. Also the tailpipe seems to point upwards (maybe just the picture angle) but when installing the muffler try to get it horizontal.

Yes it is running a bit rich, but not that rich. It isn' massive oil leak either! The grunge up under the body seam/bumper flange is migrated oily rust-proofing, like what is all over the subframe and floor. (I hate the stuff, but I hate rust more, and on a budget, that's what I could afford at the time.) I admit it does seem to contain some motor oil. And I didn't wipe off the rear valance... really!

The tailpipe does angle up a little, but it is a factory installed part of the muffler, as is the entry pipe. The photo does exaggerate it a bit. The muffler is dead-level, and everything fits well and does not interfere with the subframe, body, or shifter.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 19, 2015 12:32PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet

Thanks jeg.

Colourful responses! makes me think this should be "Project Stinky...... in Technicolour!"

So far, I managed to get everything apart and some photos. But our little digital camera won't yield some of the photos which for some reason went to its internal memory and not to the SD card.

Here's some of the photos. Everything seemed tight and it took quite a white to separate the front joint - I had a rope turnbuckle tied to the rear muffler bracket and to the garage wall, and with alot of BFH, it eventually came out.

The front joint was a wee bit sooty outside but no big deal. Inside, the joint was also clean except for a small patch on the upper side, in the last picture where pipe end appears closest to the headlight.

The manifold gasket came out in one piece and was backwards, but there was no evidence of leakage at the exhaust ports. (Those pics are stuck in the camera..... maybe tomorrow.)

 

 

Judging by your first picture and the black soot present and also cleaned off the rear valance it seems that the car either is running rich (or was at some time) Dan. Also the tailpipe seems to point upwards (maybe just the picture angle) but when installing the muffler try to get it horizontal.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: May 19, 2015 11:02AM
 Edited:  May 19, 2015 12:56PM
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i had same issue with my mini, fumes gets inside the car, its very easy to know if tue fumes or smoke is coming from the engine bay, simply rev up the engine while hood is up, if you smell fumes/ or see smoke obviously exhaust joint point between engine and manifold AND manifold and down pipe needs attention.

on mine, after i tune the mixture using Colortune and adjust the valves back to 0.012 the fumes went away thats all i did. 

here' a little analysis on how air reacts when car is in motion.... Another way to prevent axhaust fumes from going back inside the car is to open the front vents and back side windows , the air draft pressure will push the fumes away and prevent it from making a "whirlwind effect".

 

 

 

 

but if you're in doubt, always flat out..lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Posted: May 19, 2015 06:40AM
 Edited:  May 19, 2015 07:00AM
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Image Gallery

UPDATE:

I decided to dress the exhaust header flange faces a little with a file to see of I could reduce the milling marks. What I found surprised me. None of the faces were flat. Attached are "before" and "after" photos.

Initially I took a few strokes with a flat file and found that the "milling" must have been done with an angle grinder. The surfaces were highest around where the tubes are welded into the plates, and low areas corrsponded roughtly to the discoloured areas of the old gasket and the head.

I continued filing, using the glass-plate-and-oil technique to get a flat, even surface on each flange. Visually, the flanges are close enough in a plane that the fastenings will pull them straight.

After dollying out the clamp marks in the end of the exhaust pipe for a smooth refit, everything went together "like new". And yes, the manifold gasket went on the right way round. Too late in the day for a test drive... warnings of thunderstorms with hail and possibiliy of tornadoes were being broadcast on our new (to this part of Canada) emerngency waarning system meant I stayed home. Maybe today.

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 14, 2015 01:29PM
 Edited:  May 14, 2015 01:39PM
jeg
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Gee, I don't know, it looks good to me.  I don't think the old gasket looks bad either.  I think that it looks like it was sealing properly: sure, a bit o'brown discoloration burnt around #1 and 4, but the carbon ring around the orifice seems intact, thereby indicating a seal. 

I'd use the silver-colored manifold gasket and hang a pine tree from the rear view mirror.  

Edit - as Harvey said, the exhaust port soot looks kinda thick and fuzzy, so maybe try leaning the carb a teenie bit or maybe as simple as ensure that the needle sits properly in the piston.  To ensure that the needle guide (JZX1039) sits flush with the base, I generally hold needle assembly in the piston using a 6" stainless scale across the needle guide and needle shoulder as I tighten the screw.

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: May 14, 2015 01:26PM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_lankford

You said problem is only above 40 mph. If you had just an exhaust leak , one would think that would be a problem at all speeds? Maybe even worse sitting at a stop light?

you said cloud of fumes, did you literally mean visible?

Exhaust passages soot look a bit rich

I am just thinking about this from other angles so that you might not need to go to the trouble of all that disassemBly. Oops . Harvey

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mentioned earlier the negative pressure issue behind a Mini. There are also low pressure areas (eddies) each side of the car at the A-pillars, which become significant with speed. With sliding windows it can be an aid to ventilation if you open the front slider about 3 or 4 inches and the rear portion the same amount. It produces a beautiful breeze across your face it you get it right. It does not work with wind-up windows (probably why they added eyeball vents). With winders, if you open them at all, the low pressure eddies just suck air out of the cabin, which is why I have to close my windows above 40mph - the drop in cabin pressure pulls in the exhaust.

With respect to my wife's particpation, no the car exhaust is not visible and at idle it does run fairly clean. But yes, I do have sooty looking ports and tailpipe, though the exhaust pipe itself looks more or less normal. I think my needle is on the rich side at higher rpms. I'll be looking into that probably next.

No "oops", Harvey! I've gone through these scenarios so it was time to disassemble. Didn't injure myself ... so far.

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 14, 2015 01:04PM
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You said problem is only above 40 mph. If you had just an exhaust leak , one would think that would be a problem at all speeds? Maybe even worse sitting at a stop light?

you said cloud of fumes, did you literally mean visible?

Exhaust passages soot look a bit rich

I am just thinking about this from other angles so that you might not need to go to the trouble of all that disassemBly. Oops . Harvey

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Posted: May 14, 2015 12:42PM
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CA

Another question: the faces of the exhaust header flanges have mill marks on them - should I polish them out, or will the metal side of the gasket conform to them and seal up?

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 14, 2015 12:36PM
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More pictures (finally)

  • Looking down the back of the engine: Time for some housekeeping. The wet is spilled coolant when I separated the hose from the intake manifold, The brake and clutch hard lines travel across below the firewall opening. You can see the "factory"(?) hole cover, which apears to be sealed in witha black silicone type sealant. The upper line with the U-bend is the fuel line - up away from the header and where it might get pinched by the carb. I was able to work the leader out without disconnecting any engine steadies!
  • The next 3 photos are of the back of the head - not much room for a camera with flash, so a bit blurry. A bit toasty looking around ports 1 and 4 I think? The dimpling pattern is from the backwards gasket.
  • The next 4 photos are (upside-down)  of the header ports and the gasket face that was against the header. All ports seemed to have been sealed on this side. The orange sealant was from the intake manifold - not sure if it was me or the mechanic I took it to for carb problems. Per Jeg's recommendation I will put the gasket on the right way round and not use sealant (unless I encounter induction leaks later).
  • The last picture is of the old gasket with two new ones. Way beack when, I did purchase spares to economize on shipping. I got the large-port gasket because when I got the car, I wasn't sure whether I needed large or small.

Tell me what you think of the evidence.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 14, 2015 07:11AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg

The pipes look nice and clean, the tailpipe looks great as it is, and there's no evidence of blow-out/through on the joints or cracks that I can see.

There is one smudge inside the end of the long pipe that looks suspicious to me.

I forgot that you have the rolled end at the tailpipe; I think the stainless systems have a slightly larger taipipe diameter than the basic carbon steel solutions that the commoners use, so the extention might not slip over the pipe in the event that you were to cut the end off of your existing tailpipe. 

Yeah, I was looking at that... the OD at the muffler appears to me about 2.25" or so.. huge!

I like the jacking reinforcement on the rear subby - I've been meaning to do this to mine, have a bit o'angle iron and keep forgetting about it.  It's on the list for 'someday'.

Actually it was its secondary use: at one point, before i could afford the SS RC40, I had a 1.5" steel pipe with a Thrush muffler and a 2" straight centre exit tailpipe. With no space between the subframe and rear valance to put a hanger, I had to put in a bracket to hang the exhaust from. To mount the bracket, I had to put that angle in to provide an up-turned, inboard flange. This reeived two rubber mounts to which the bracket, a short piece of angle, was hung. The short angle had 2 holes to receive the ends ofg a clamp U-bolt. Thogh i didnt' try, i could have jacked the car by the tailpipe.

Oh, and with reference to Spitz' gearshift gaitor, I replaced mine when I installed a reverse light and found that the neither the original retaining collar plate nor the new one that I purchased as a backup didn't fit over the flanged hole in the tunnel properly which was why I always had a slight water leak in wet weather.  I dressed the hole in the shell and when I installed the new gaitor, used a bit of RTV sealant and haven't had a problem since.

I'll take a look.

I'll post mor pictures later - I got them from the camera to a tablet, which now decided it wants to be recharged. It's conspiracy, I tell ya!

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 14, 2015 06:58AM
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CA

Spitz said "Could the fumes you're getting be coming from under the hood....ie: blow-by from the engine?"

Jedduh01 said "How are your engine breathers connected - or are they not?"

Mur said "The crankcase breather concerns are important. If you have those silly filters instead of a pcv system then you will get bad smells."

Yes, a possibility. The breathers are connected together and then to a nipple on the base of the cone filter, where induction should draw then back in. Blowby at higher rpms may be too much. I'll play with that concept once I get the exhaust system back together.

H_Lankford said "Have you idled it with a rag stuffed in the end of the tailpipe and listened for the hiss of a leak?"

No, the tapered tailpipe won't hold a rag - it just pops out again. My "lovely assistant" does not want to stand in a cloud of fumes holding a rag. (neither do I!)

Mur said "Another area of concern is the fresh air and heater air intake system."... and "the weatherstripping shrinks over time, so add make up pieces to the doors and rear quarter lights. Make certain that all body plugs are properly fitted."

The heater/fresh air ducting is complete and intact. The main heater duct under the right wing was replaced with aluminum flex-duct. Both eyeball vents provide clean, fresh air. The heater shut-off valve is in place and working but stiff. The doos and operable rear quarter windows have seals in decent condition, though the window seals are a bit short and leave small gaps in one forward corner each. all body plugs appear to be original and in place and I have stuffed batt insulation wrapped in poly in the bottoms of the companion boxes and in the gaps between the boot bulkhead and the quarter panels. Jeg's sharp inspection probably spotted the patch in the tire well floor - when I got the car there was a bit of rust from a wet spare being left in the well. The metal there seemed to be thinner than spec from when the panel was stamped. All rust was cut out and the formed patch installed with sealant (I don't have a welder.) The remainder of the body is straight and solid.

Jedduh01 said "the big open hole behind the cluster- have you tried blocking it off well too?"

The car actually has a factory-original (as far as I can tell) plastic panel fitted.

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 13, 2015 06:18PM
mur
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The crankcase breather concerns are important. If you have those silly filters instead of a pcv system then you will get bad smells.

Another area of concern is the fresh air and heater air intake system. It all needs to be in place from the grille on back. A working heater shut off valve is nice, so that you can always have airflow through the heater no matter the season, and then use the eyeball vents as well when needed. Make sure that the foam originally intended to reduce noise transmission via the heater air intake is removed, it often collapses and blocks airflow.

lastly, the weatherstripping shrinks over time, so add make up pieces to the doors and rear quarter lights. Make certain that all body plugs are properly fitted.

your car is a MK IV+ car so it is easily sorted.

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