What could be causing my excessive wheel play?
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Jan 29, 2016 12:07PM | mur | |
Jan 29, 2016 11:15AM | jwakil | Edited: Jan 29, 2016 11:17AM |
Jan 29, 2016 10:18AM | Hunter2 | |
Jan 29, 2016 08:29AM | Spitz | |
Jan 29, 2016 07:01AM | malsal | |
Jan 29, 2016 06:43AM | jwakil | Edited: Jan 29, 2016 06:45AM |
Jan 28, 2016 03:16PM | h_lankford | |
Jan 28, 2016 02:05PM | jwakil | Edited: Jan 28, 2016 02:10PM |
Jan 28, 2016 08:58AM | malsal | |
Jan 28, 2016 07:58AM | Spank | |
Jan 28, 2016 07:54AM | Spank | Edited: Jan 28, 2016 07:58AM |
Jan 28, 2016 07:50AM | dimitris | |
Jan 28, 2016 07:36AM | jwakil | |
Jan 27, 2016 11:43AM | h_lankford | |
Jan 27, 2016 09:56AM | Thorty | |
Jan 27, 2016 08:50AM | mur | |
Jan 27, 2016 06:47AM | jwakil | |
Jan 26, 2016 01:09PM | DRMINI | |
Jan 26, 2016 12:15PM | Alex | |
Jan 26, 2016 08:30AM | Spank |
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You know why you can't see the tapered washer?
I think it is because you went to the Internet to find out how to service a critical part of a car instead of consulting a workshop manual and talking to knowledgeable experts about your exact situation.
drum brakes and 997/998 brakes do not have the tapered washer.
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Ok, I noticed squirrelly behavior again so I checked and sure enough the passenger wheel nut was loose again!. But I did realize something I could have done wrong. While my drive shaft has multiple holes for the split pins, if the hole lines up along the trailing edge of the nut cutout face, when you tap the pin in, it can actually loosen the nut. Plus, if you then hammer the pin to bend it and you happen to hammer in the counter clockwise direction, you further loosen the nut. So I tried to avoid that this time. While I appreciate the words of caution, I will give it one more shot to see if it loosens again.
The other question I have: I don't see any kind of tapered washer in my assembly. When I looked at it, I just have a flat washer behind the nut. See pic.
1992 1275 SPI Mini
1981 Porsche 911 Turbo (930)
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Oh my, who wants a front wheel coming off because it was just tighten the nut and go???
On the brand new sedan/trailer build with 1380, I had a loose right front wheel nut 600 miles from the end of an 8,500 mile trip to Mini Meets in Arizona & Maryland.
It was a Sunday afternoon near the Continental Divide in southeastern B.C. Did not have the parts to strip and refresh/renew the hub, the closest airport was in Cranbrook...so I retorqued the disc brake hub to +150 ft.lbs, reinserted the pin, checked for play and 'tip toed' to Cranbrook.
'Tip toeing' meant no more than 50 mph and no throttle on lefthand curves.
Checked hub in Cranbrook, was OK so continued to tip toe westward following the setting sun up over the Salmo-Creston Skyway and on to Castlegar for fuel at 11:45 pm, then over the Paulsen Summit, no traffic to worry about, through the Boundary Country to Osoyoos at dawn for the last fillup.
Rolled west over the Hope-Princeton and onto the mad house Hwy. 1 in the Fraser Valley. The wifey came alive when she realized we were going to make it home. We rolled at 50 mph in the right hand lane while traffic whizzed by on the left.
Got home. Parked the Mini. Checked remaining torque 75 ft. lbs. Stripped the hub - DRIVE FLANGE NOT SERVICEABLE - case hardening gone away on the thrust face and face worn, hub OK, threw out the Timken bearings and rebuilt both right & left hubs.
Looking back...the lost drive flange sequence began just before crossing the Missouri River when I hit a huge UNMARKED pothole (for a Mini) feet ahead of the mid-state bridge.
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The threaded shaft on the outer CV is much smaller on the drum brake'd cars
"Everybody should own a MINI at some point, or you are incomplete as a human being" - James May
"WET COOPER", Partsguy1 (Terry Snell of Penticton BC ) - Could you send the money for the unpaid parts and court fees.
Ordered so by a Judge
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AFAIK the drums used ball bearings and discs use tapered roller bearings maybe that is the difference and also that the drum cv joint is smaller than the disc cv joint.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Well, that leads me to wonder: Is lower torque for drum brakes because the drums (or something else) cannot handle the high pressure and therefore the low torque requirement is a limitation or defect, or is the design such that 60 ft lbs with drums can hold as well as 150 ft lbs with disks so there is no need to go higher?
1992 1275 SPI Mini
1981 Porsche 911 Turbo (930)
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I have drum brakes, so 60 lb ft is correct. I will continue monitoring and if the handling becomes loose again, I'll know what to check.
This lengthy post is a lesson in how an important basic fact up front can save a lot of time. I posted my 150 lbs on purpose wondering if your 1982? had drum or disc brakes.
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I have drum brakes, so 60 lb ft is correct. I will continue monitoring and if the handling becomes loose again, I'll know what to check.
1992 1275 SPI Mini
1981 Porsche 911 Turbo (930)
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No i wouldn't Spank. especially after reading of the S***ron you drove from California to Miami for a Lemons event and left it there with the title on the dash LOL.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Oh, and I'm just a crapcan hack mechanic who is always looking for the "good enough" solution to keep my car going. All of my cars have "issues" and I drive them anyways. Well, the one with the least issues at the time I need to drive anywhere is the one that gets used.
You'd be amazed at how crappy a car I can still drive.
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aaaaannnnnd THERE's your problem.
150 minimum
for drums it is 60. For discs it is more like 180 (150 then continue tightening until yo uhit the next hole).
And don't misunderstand me-- I'm not saying it isn't worth inspecting. I'm just saying that if after tightening to the recommended 150+ lbs you got no signs of a problem, you can likely continue driving it until such time that you can disassemble and inspect it.
I'd be surprised to hear that you can tighten it to over 150 lbs and you don't have signs of a proble.
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I once had this same scenario
No way I would put all my puny strength into getting that big 150 ft-lbs of torque on that "loose nut" not knowing first what was going on underneath.
150 ft-lbs? My Haynes manual says 60 ft lbs?
Torque wrench settings
Driveshaft retaining nut:
Drum brake models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 83Nm 60lbf ft
Disc brake models:
With multiple split pin holes in driveshaft . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 207Nm 150lbf ft
With single split pin hole in driveshaft . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 255 to 270Nm 188 to 200lbf ft
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I once had this same scenario
No way I would put all my puny strength into getting that big 150 ft-lbs of torque on that "loose nut" not knowing first what was going on underneath.
150 ft-lbs? My Haynes manual says 60 ft lbs?
1992 1275 SPI Mini
1981 Porsche 911 Turbo (930)
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I once had this same scenario
No way I would put all my puny strength into getting that big 150 ft-lbs of torque on that "loose nut" not knowing first what was going on underneath.
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I'm with Mur on this one. Something caused the loosening. Rather then tighten, loosen and inspect at least for well being and to avoid future repairs and cost.
Shawn
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I think it is great that you are not going to worry about it.
Here is what I want others to take away from this thread:
If the outer CV nut is loose either it was assembled wrong, or it was assembled correctly and has since come loose.
If it was assembled wrong, you can not trust any other assembly steps that have been done. Also, improper assembly may have damaged the components, or they may be damaged from driving the car in that condition.
If it was assembled correctly, and has since come loose, there is a problem. The bearings could have issues, the spacer between the bearings could be a lesser spec and have crushed, the drive flange face that meets the inner race could be fretted.
All of the above can ultimately cause the outer race to spin in the hub and destroy the swivel hub.
Personally, when I first read about using a flat washer to pull things together on the larger disc brake assemblies, about the time the blue Haynes manual came out, I considered getting an appropriate washer. These days I assemble the hub, bring the castellated nut up using the tapered washer, check things over, loosen the nut and check the tapered washer for binding and then when I feel good about things I torque it up as it should be.
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I'm pretty sure you won't have to replace the hub. Don't sweat it.
I'm not convinced you need to disassemble everything either.
Step one is jack up the wheel and listen for any noise or unusual drag or rumbling while you slowly rotate it. Feel for the roughness in the vibrations. My experience is that the tapered bearings are remarkably tolerant. Are they likely "sub-optimal"? Yea. But, again, you'd be surrised what level of jacked-up-edness is totally serviceable for normal driving.
if you've got the free time, put disasembly-reassembly on your to-do list. But, personally, I would NOT do a "park it until you R/R it".
Yea, I'm not going to worry about it. There is no wheel movement, no noise when I spin the wheel or drive, and the rubbing sound has disappeared. If I ever have to take the hub off, I'll have a look.
I finally realized the car can handle pretty well on turns! Before it was like trying to guide spaghetti.
1992 1275 SPI Mini
1981 Porsche 911 Turbo (930)
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I've got the squooshing noise at really low speeds on Betty, and it's been bugging me.
Changed the CVs and the pot joints, with different hubs and calipers, and it's still doing it !
I had that problem years ago, was worse under braking.
I finally found one (Chinese made) disk rotor had 2 radial cracks in it. So, I replaced both with Italian ones.
Kevin G
1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.
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I've got the squooshing noise at really low speeds on Betty, and it's been bugging me.
Changed the CVs and the pot joints, with different hubs and calipers, and it's still doing it !
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I'm pretty sure you won't have to replace the hub. Don't sweat it.
I'm not convinced you need to disassemble everything either.
Step one is jack up the wheel and listen for any noise or unusual drag or rumbling while you slowly rotate it. Feel for the roughness in the vibrations. My experience is that the tapered bearings are remarkably tolerant. Are they likely "sub-optimal"? Yea. But, again, you'd be surrised what level of jacked-up-edness is totally serviceable for normal driving.
if you've got the free time, put disasembly-reassembly on your to-do list. But, personally, I would NOT do a "park it until you R/R it".