Miss in the engine?
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Jul 28, 2016 11:41AM | Dan Moffet | |
Jul 28, 2016 09:08AM | malsal | |
Jul 28, 2016 08:45AM | jchealey | |
Jul 28, 2016 08:26AM | minimans | |
Jul 28, 2016 02:57AM | Dan Moffet | |
Jul 27, 2016 09:09AM | jchealey | |
Jul 26, 2016 06:52AM | Dan Moffet | Edited: Jul 26, 2016 06:55AM |
Jul 25, 2016 01:22PM | mini4ever | |
Jul 25, 2016 01:11PM | jchealey | |
Jul 25, 2016 12:17PM | jeg | |
Jul 25, 2016 11:42AM | tmsmith | |
Jul 25, 2016 11:29AM | Dan Moffet | Edited: Jul 25, 2016 11:31AM |
Jul 25, 2016 10:59AM | RedRiley | |
Jul 25, 2016 08:23AM | mini4ever | Edited: Jul 25, 2016 01:18PM |
Jul 25, 2016 07:25AM | jchealey | |
Jul 23, 2016 10:40AM | Dan Moffet | |
Jul 23, 2016 10:31AM | Dan Moffet | |
Jul 22, 2016 10:23PM | minimans | |
Jul 22, 2016 06:38PM | mini4ever | Edited: Jul 22, 2016 06:41PM |
Jul 22, 2016 05:59PM | jchealey |
Found 24 Messages
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Jerry
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Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch
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Plugs and firing sound OK, as does fuel supply.
You need to check the complete low tension (12v) circuit that feeds the coil - from the supply at the solenoid or hot side of the fuse box to the ignition switch to the coil, and then the coil ground. It could be a loose connector somewhere that 'shakes and breaks' when the engine is at idle. It may also be 'skipping' when rpms are up but isn't noticeable because the engine is turning fast enough to hide it and keeps running. Check your engine ground strap too.
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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More checking to come.
Jerry
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There is manifold vacuum created by the cylinders, and it is highest when the throttle is closed. But the small port in the SU carb which operates the dashpot is before the throttle. It does not work on manifold vacuum at all. It works on vacuum resulting from air rushing through the carb when the throttle is open. The wider the throttle, the faster the air flow and the more vacuum is applied to the dashpot. Now, the dashpot does 2 things. The bottom end of the dashpot piston forms half of the venturi - the part of the carb throat that causes a reduction in air pressure that draws fuel up out. of the main jet and helps atomize it. That's the first part. The second part is that the main jet needle is attached to the bottom of the dashpot and gets pulled out, allowing more fuel to flow in direct proportion to the air passing through the venturi.
At any particular throttle setting, the dashpot is metering fuel and air at the same time in appropriate proportion.
But when you put your right foot down suddenly on the accellerator pedal, opening the throttle suddenly, you mess up this balanced system by suddenly allowing more manifold vacuum to suck on the carb. The dashpot suddenly wants to open more. This makes the venturi momentarily too wide, reducing the draw on the main jet and the fuel supply lags. The result is a stumble or hesitation. But the smart guys who developed the SU carb solved this by adding the dashpot damper to slow the reaction of the dashpot to CHANGES in throttle.
Now what happens is when you stomp, the throttle opens, the vacuum is applied to the carb throat with the venturi still mostly closed and the main needle still way down at the idle setting. You'd think there wouldn't be enough fuel to accelerate, but the vacuum can't get enough air, so it sucks much harder on the main jet and EXTRA fuel gets pulled instead. This is the 'accelerator pump' effect. Fixed venturi carbs like Holleys have and need an accelerator pump to compensate for momentary leanness when the throttle opens. (In fuel injection the computer uses the throttle position sensor to do the same job.)
Good that sir Dan FINALLY agrees with me.....i can now have a good night sleep tonight.... haaaaaay!!!!
Just go back to sleep.
For the record, I did not agree with anything Tony wrote.
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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There is manifold vacuum created by the cylinders, and it is highest when the throttle is closed. But the small port in the SU carb which operates the dashpot is before the throttle. It does not work on manifold vacuum at all. It works on vacuum resulting from air rushing through the carb when the throttle is open. The wider the throttle, the faster the air flow and the more vacuum is applied to the dashpot. Now, the dashpot does 2 things. The bottom end of the dashpot piston forms half of the venturi - the part of the carb throat that causes a reduction in air pressure that draws fuel up out. of the main jet and helps atomize it. That's the first part. The second part is that the main jet needle is attached to the bottom of the dashpot and gets pulled out, allowing more fuel to flow in direct proportion to the air passing through the venturi.
At any particular throttle setting, the dashpot is metering fuel and air at the same time in appropriate proportion.
But when you put your right foot down suddenly on the accellerator pedal, opening the throttle suddenly, you mess up this balanced system by suddenly allowing more manifold vacuum to suck on the carb. The dashpot suddenly wants to open more. This makes the venturi momentarily too wide, reducing the draw on the main jet and the fuel supply lags. The result is a stumble or hesitation. But the smart guys who developed the SU carb solved this by adding the dashpot damper to slow the reaction of the dashpot to CHANGES in throttle.
Now what happens is when you stomp, the throttle opens, the vacuum is applied to the carb throat with the venturi still mostly closed and the main needle still way down at the idle setting. You'd think there wouldn't be enough fuel to accelerate, but the vacuum can't get enough air, so it sucks much harder on the main jet and EXTRA fuel gets pulled instead. This is the 'accelerator pump' effect. Fixed venturi carbs like Holleys have and need an accelerator pump to compensate for momentary leanness when the throttle opens. (In fuel injection the computer uses the throttle position sensor to do the same job.)
Good that sir Dan FINALLY agrees with me.....i can now have a good night sleep tonight.... haaaaaay!!!!
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Jerry
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You believe wrong... 2½ - 3 psi is all you need and SU's are very sensitive to higher pressures. Fuel flow rate is far more important than fuel pressure.
The peasants are revolting...
"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance
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Which carb are you using, obviously an SU with a dashpot?
I am thinking fuel delivery somehow> Did you replace the rubber lines when you built this up a short time ago.
And I guess if it is an HIF there is no easy way to check the float bowl.
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- a "miss" is when one or more cylinders intermittently fail to fire properly. causing the engine to run rough, though it does keep running.
- a "stumble" is when it loses power momentarily but usually keeps running and catches up. Like when you trip on a crack in the sidewalk but don't fall down.
- "hesitation" is a lesser stumble - a delay in power increase.
- a "stall" is when the engine fails to keep running and you need to crank it again.
A miss usually results from poor tuning - timing, mixture, bad plugs/wires etc.
A stumble usually results from tuning problems or the 'accelerator pump' effect not working because you forgot the dashpot oil.
A stall occurs when for one reason or another the engine does not produce enough power to continue running. This could be loss of spark, loss of or too much fuel, or too much load for the available air/fuel mixture, like when you let the clutch pedal out without pushing the accellerator pedal.
On SU carbs, pumping the gas pedal does absolutely nothing but open and close the throttle.
On the assumption your carb linkage including choke are correctly set up, pulling the choke out about half-way (a little less actually) should richen the mixture as you were trying to do. After a certain point - about 1/3 - the choke mechanism should be engaging the throttle mechanism to increase rpms to assist in warm-up. So pulling the choke out as you did would have modified a fueling problem.
One area we haven't explored is the possibility of an air leak. Check to see that all the carb and manifold bolts are tightened to spec. Then, if you can keep it running long enough, use a rubber hose like a stethoscope to listen around each gasket area and hose connection for the hiss of air being sucked in where it shouldn't be. Or, if you have an unlit propane torch or can of ether, you 'leak' this fuel around the gaskets etc. and listen for the rpms to increase.
Electrically, check the low voltage connections to the coil and the 123 ignition system. If you have a tach installed, try disconnecting it. I don't think the electric fan plugged into the cigar lighter is an accurate assessment of electrical condition - it is a constant load and its speed changes would not be apparent (unless you have stroboscopic eyes!). The ignition system draws comparatively very low current. Your fuses should not matter because the ignition system is supposed to be unfused. Depending on what you have added as accessories (like the fan and cig lighter) you may be taxing the electrical system. If your car is a 1968, it probably came with a generator and voltage regulator. This system is intended to provide enough regeneration to keep the basics like the original lights, wipers and heater fan working... barely if all on a t once. If you still have them in place and you've upgraded your headlights, added a stereo and your electric fan, you'd be overloading it. The generator can't keep up and maybe the voltage regulator takes a hissy fit. If it has been converted to an alternator, then it might be more complex. [Having it cut out suddenly when rpms drop below a certain point suggests a charging/voltage regulation issue to me. Generators generally lag below about 1000 rpm.]
The only other thing I can think of is that you riled Lucas, Prince of Darkness by having a cigar lighter in a car that was designed without one. Bad "carma".
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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On the fuel system issue: pull the line that lead from the fuel pump, insert it inside a clean empty glass bottle, crank the engine ,see if fuel comes out of the line, if yes then your manual fuel pump is ok.,there is a standard fuel pump pressure as well. i believe it's 2.5 to 3psi., if it's low, address the issue as well. Be careful in dealing with the gas, and gas tank...don't be like the Binky's, sawing the mouth of the gas tank with a metal saw...oh gawd!!!
if you really want it to idle good....just adjust the idle screw..problem solved!!!
idle screw is the most neglected part of the mini,,, besides the ashtray..
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thanks
Jerry
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.
"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
Total posts: 9543
Last post: Apr 20, 2024 Member since:Aug 14, 2002
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There is manifold vacuum created by the cylinders, and it is highest when the throttle is closed. But the small port in the SU carb which operates the dashpot is before the throttle. It does not work on manifold vacuum at all. It works on vacuum resulting from air rushing through the carb when the throttle is open. The wider the throttle, the faster the air flow and the more vacuum is applied to the dashpot. Now, the dashpot does 2 things. The bottom end of the dashpot piston forms half of the venturi - the part of the carb throat that causes a reduction in air pressure that draws fuel up out. of the main jet and helps atomize it. That's the first part. The second part is that the main jet needle is attached to the bottom of the dashpot and gets pulled out, allowing more fuel to flow in direct proportion to the air passing through the venturi.
At any particular throttle setting, the dashpot is metering fuel and air at the same time in appropriate proportion.
But when you put your right foot down suddenly on the accellerator pedal, opening the throttle suddenly, you mess up this balanced system by suddenly allowing more manifold vacuum to suck on the carb. The dashpot suddenly wants to open more. This makes the venturi momentarily too wide, reducing the draw on the main jet and the fuel supply lags. The result is a stumble or hesitation. But the smart guys who developed the SU carb solved this by adding the dashpot damper to slow the reaction of the dashpot to CHANGES in throttle.
Now what happens is when you stomp, the throttle opens, the vacuum is applied to the carb throat with the venturi still mostly closed and the main needle still way down at the idle setting. You'd think there wouldn't be enough fuel to accelerate, but the vacuum can't get enough air, so it sucks much harder on the main jet and EXTRA fuel gets pulled instead. This is the 'accelerator pump' effect. Fixed venturi carbs like Holleys have and need an accelerator pump to compensate for momentary leanness when the throttle opens. (In fuel injection the computer uses the throttle position sensor to do the same job.)
.
"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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Concluding remarks:: More gas that goes inside the engine with less Air...this creates flooding. ,,(me and mystacreation were right).
"someone" else is wrong...
SO, bottomline-----> check the dashpot oil level, period!!!!
common sense is not learnt in school...it's comes out naturally !!!!
Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch
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Concluding remarks:: More gas that goes inside the engine with less Air...this creates flooding. ,,(me and mystacreation were right).
"someone" else is wrong...
SO, bottomline-----> check the dashpot oil level, period!!!!
common sense is not learnt in school...it's comes out naturally !!!!
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Excellent matrix to check the issues. Thanks very much for the suggestions.
Found 24 Messages