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 Posted: Sep 22, 2016 11:37AM
BS
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US
Rick, While I agree with your assessment of the"specialist", I can't go along 
with the acronym. It's been my MiniMania screen name since 1999.
Bill

 Posted: Sep 22, 2016 08:29AM
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CA
I can not believe that the self-named 'specialist' is not banned from this site.  So much not only erroneous but dangerous BS.

BS the acronym for BAN SPECIALIST.

 Posted: Sep 22, 2016 07:11AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by easteregg
With all due respect, I'm not confident in drilling the driveshaft. I think the cotter is seated enough. I think the advice of "if everything is seated right...you should need it to do its job" is correct. I don't think the advice was to leave it out...goodness no.
Agreed. Absolutely. The whole assembly was designed by engineers who knew what they were doing and machined and constructed to very good tolerances by others who knew what they were doing. That included a pin and holes in the right place. If what we put together doesn't work as they built it, then obviously something is not right - worn parts or improper assembly.
Drilling another hole at the end of a CV joint is a no-no. If the end of the shaft were weakened it could snap off.
CV joints can be torqued many times but have a finite life of the threads.
Spirited driving can also shorten the life of the threads.
Picture is of Don Racine's race car at Mid Ohio.
What time is it ?

Time for a new CV.....(Note stretched/weakened threads).

Don went on to win. 

 Posted: Sep 22, 2016 06:13AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by easteregg
With all due respect, I'm not confident in drilling the driveshaft. I think the cotter is seated enough. I think the advice of "if everything is seated right...you should need it to do its job" is correct. I don't think the advice was to leave it out...goodness no.
Agreed. Absolutely. The whole assembly was designed by engineers who knew what they were doing and machined and constructed to very good tolerances by others who knew what they were doing. That included a pin and holes in the right place. If what we put together doesn't work as they built it, then obviously something is not right - worn parts or improper assembly.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 22, 2016 05:50AM
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With all due respect, I'm not confident in drilling the driveshaft. I think the cotter is seated enough. I think the advice of "if everything is seated right...you should need it to do its job" is correct. I don't think the advice was to leave it out...goodness no.

 Posted: Sep 22, 2016 05:09AM
 Edited:  Sep 22, 2016 05:23AM
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Sir Dan, you just have to drill it straight. And dont make the hole big. If you make 2 holes across, at least you have more chances of inserting the cotter pin, rather than just not putting it at all.  Or maybe you can use blue locktite instead, that's debatable

 Posted: Sep 22, 2016 04:49AM
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CA
I'm just trying to imagine drilling a small hole through the driveshaft. Maybe if one has a machine shop and has the experience drilling hard steel accurately. I know IF I tried it, I might get partway through before the drill broke and got jammed in.
.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Sep 21, 2016 03:35PM
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Quote:

You are miss interpreting what he said. I believe that he is saying is if the castle nut and the hole are aligned and torqued up correctly with no wear on the assembly the nut should never come loose and the cotter pin will be just a fail safe item if the assembly loosens up.


this is exactly what I said. (We all know why it was purposefully misinterpreted.)

 Posted: Sep 21, 2016 01:44PM
 Edited:  Sep 21, 2016 05:25PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specialist
if the cotter pin did not align, i wouldn't mind drilling another hole just to insert the pin through. RATHER than not putting the cotter pin AT ALL. ...dangerous!!!!


edited: sir paul, its because lankford said he wouldnt use the cotter pin which i think is dangerous, even if everythings workng properly its still is risky.
You are miss interpreting what he said. I believe that what he is saying is if the castle nut and the hole are aligned and torqued up correctly with no wear on the assembly the nut should never come loose and the cotter pin will be just a fail safe item if the assembly loosens up.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Sep 21, 2016 12:48PM
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Tony who said anything about not fitting the pin? and If you need to drill a new hole because nothing said already would not help then there's something wrong with the hub/bearings that need fixing not bodging with a new hole! Also drilling holes through the CV will weaken it at the thread possibly causing a failure at that point.

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Sep 21, 2016 12:18PM
 Edited:  Sep 21, 2016 01:01PM
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if the cotter pin did not align, i wouldn't mind drilling another hole just to insert the pin through. RATHER than not putting the cotter pin AT ALL. ...dangerous!!!!


edited: sir paul, its because lankford said he wouldnt use the cotter pin which i think is dangerous, even if everythings workng properly its still is risky.

 Posted: Sep 21, 2016 12:04PM
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if everything fits right, works right, stays tight,  then that cotter pin will never come into usage. 

 Posted: Sep 21, 2016 07:12AM
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Jeg, 

That's what I ended up doing..just bending the eye of the cotter a little to angle into the teeth. 

The bearings and races are new. There shouldn't be any wear...but I hear you that the hub may be a little worn.

 Posted: Sep 20, 2016 12:12PM
jeg
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You could also slightly bend the 'eye' of the split pin inwards for greater engagement between the castle-nut slots.

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Sep 20, 2016 08:51AM
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 1/16" is not the worse i have seen if you don't feel comfortable try what i said and put a flat washer behind it and run it around the block and re check it. I still think you need to pull it apart and check for wear though. Like 1963sv2 said if it has wear you should be able to see the disc off center when looking at it where it runs through the caliper.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Sep 20, 2016 05:35AM
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When I say the axle is too far out, I mean the castle is covering the hole (the proper way) but maybe a 1/16" too far back.  The cotter still catches the castle, just not as much as I'd like it. I don't get that warm and fuzzy feeling. Maybe I being too critical.

Thanks for the attention to detail in the post 6464! (Is that what we call you?)

 Posted: Sep 20, 2016 03:48AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963SV2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter2
I use thick washer to pre-load the front wheel bearings in the hub...then remove and insert tapered split washer and re-torque to 150 ft/lb...stopping short of over torqueing as Alex has noted, if using a single hole CV.

No failures.   Even our +200lb man bouncing on 12" wrench set the proper torque for the new CV & bearings in Queensland!

Incidentally, Ken N. in Ipswich, Qld. said setting pre-load with tapered roller bearings was easier/more accurate than with ball bearings.
Well you're not actually preloading the bearing....  You use the flat washer (piece of flat steel around an eighth thick with a hole the size of the CV end drilled in it - shape doesn't matter) to squash the CV/bearing/flange together.  Because the outer collar is tapered and split it can *sometimes* clamp/jam itself onto the stub axle so that even with the proper torque applied to the nut, the bearings etc are not properly clamped together..... 

"....the issue is that if it were packed in further, allowing the castle to thread on further, it would be behind the hole and the cotter would be in front of the teeth of the cotter. Does that make sense?.."

The way it works is this; the bearings and drive shaft slide on to the CV stub axle (which BMC describes as the "drive shaft".  The inner bearing sits on the face of the CV the bearing distance piece sits on the inner race the outer bearing inner race (getting tongue tied) sits on the distance piece and the hub and disc assembly (what i call the drive flange) sit on the outer inner race.  The drive shaft nut sits on the tapered collar which sits on the drive flange  and jams all this together. 

The only way the drive shaft nut thread can stick out too far is for the CV face to outer drive flange face distance is too short... For this to happen either the bearings, the spacer or the drive flange is too thin.. Of all these, only the drive flange is subject to wear (assuming you're using new bearings etc).  Virtually all drive flanges I have seen are worn .. (but none as badly as described).  Which is why the early flange with its replaceable inner collar seems like a really good idea.

As I mentioned earlier, if the flange is so worn to have moved this far inwards, I'm surprised that the disc is not rubbing on the upright/calliper somewhere.

IMHO the actual torque is not the critical as long as there's lots.... I drove and maintained my Mins for 30 years before I bought a torque wrench.  In those days I weighed something north of 140 lbs. I would just stand on the end of a foot(ish) long socket drive give it a bit of a bounce.  Then check it and bounce a bit more to line up the holes for the split pin.  I've never (sic) had a bearing fail. 




Good explanation and well on point.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Sep 20, 2016 02:31AM
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US
Can you show me a picture of this early replaceable inner collar that is not a 998 or 997 7 inch disc drive flange? Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Sep 19, 2016 06:35PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter2
I use thick washer to pre-load the front wheel bearings in the hub...then remove and insert tapered split washer and re-torque to 150 ft/lb...stopping short of over torqueing as Alex has noted, if using a single hole CV.

No failures.   Even our +200lb man bouncing on 12" wrench set the proper torque for the new CV & bearings in Queensland!

Incidentally, Ken N. in Ipswich, Qld. said setting pre-load with tapered roller bearings was easier/more accurate than with ball bearings.
Well you're not actually preloading the bearing....  You use the flat washer (piece of flat steel around an eighth thick with a hole the size of the CV end drilled in it - shape doesn't matter) to squash the CV/bearing/flange together.  Because the outer collar is tapered and split it can *sometimes* clamp/jam itself onto the stub axle so that even with the proper torque applied to the nut, the bearings etc are not properly clamped together..... 

"....the issue is that if it were packed in further, allowing the castle to thread on further, it would be behind the hole and the cotter would be in front of the teeth of the cotter. Does that make sense?.."

The way it works is this; the bearings and drive shaft slide on to the CV stub axle (which BMC describes as the "drive shaft".  The inner bearing sits on the face of the CV the bearing distance piece sits on the inner race the outer bearing inner race (getting tongue tied) sits on the distance piece and the hub and disc assembly (what i call the drive flange) sit on the outer inner race.  The drive shaft nut sits on the tapered collar which sits on the drive flange  and jams all this together. 

The only way the drive shaft nut thread can stick out too far is for the CV face to outer drive flange face distance is too short... For this to happen either the bearings, the spacer or the drive flange is too thin.. Of all these, only the drive flange is subject to wear (assuming you're using new bearings etc).  Virtually all drive flanges I have seen are worn .. (but none as badly as described).  Which is why the early flange with its replaceable inner collar seems like a really good idea.

As I mentioned earlier, if the flange is so worn to have moved this far inwards, I'm surprised that the disc is not rubbing on the upright/calliper somewhere.

IMHO the actual torque is not the critical as long as there's lots.... I drove and maintained my Mins for 30 years before I bought a torque wrench.  In those days I weighed something north of 140 lbs. I would just stand on the end of a foot(ish) long socket drive give it a bit of a bounce.  Then check it and bounce a bit more to line up the holes for the split pin.  I've never (sic) had a bearing fail. 




 Posted: Sep 19, 2016 06:01PM
 Edited:  Sep 20, 2016 05:48AM
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Actually in my own well thought opinion, there is no such thing as "how tight" to go on a castle nut because it will all depend when the hole and castle nut will align.  If you say 180lbs torque is ok  but if the castle nut and the hole does not align, you still need to go further, and further and further...until the  pin is able to get through.That's why it's wrong to formulate a theory about how tight castle nut should be. Its a case to case basis.

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