Harsh ride
Created by: Derramax
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Jan 14, 2017 08:49AM | Derramax | Edited: Jan 14, 2017 09:35AM |
Jan 14, 2017 08:02AM | specialist | |
Jan 14, 2017 07:47AM | Derramax | |
Jan 12, 2017 01:37AM | Alex | |
Jan 11, 2017 11:15PM | 1963SV2 | |
Jan 11, 2017 05:49AM | Dan Moffet | |
Jan 10, 2017 08:40PM | Rosebud | Edited: Jan 10, 2017 08:43PM |
Jan 10, 2017 04:42PM | Derramax | |
Jan 10, 2017 04:32PM | specialist | |
Jan 10, 2017 02:46PM | Derramax | |
Jan 4, 2017 09:52AM | specialist | Edited: Jan 4, 2017 10:01AM |
Jan 4, 2017 09:04AM | ssuperflyoldguy | |
Jan 4, 2017 07:31AM | Derramax | |
Jan 3, 2017 11:59PM | ssuperflyoldguy | |
Jan 3, 2017 10:04PM | Hunter2 | |
Jan 3, 2017 04:17PM | malsal | |
Jan 3, 2017 03:01PM | Dan Moffet | |
Jan 3, 2017 02:09PM | geoO | |
Jan 3, 2017 01:30PM | malsal | |
Jan 3, 2017 12:25PM | Derramax |
Total posts: 58
Last post: Dec 22, 2022 Member since:Jul 19, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
Total posts: 1188
Last post: Aug 13, 2020 Member since:Aug 9, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
If the tire is almost touching the side quarter panel, that's stock.... But if the wheels is so high , almost look like an ATV, then its modified either moulton rubber or spring ,hilo set to highest level. The Vtec people are fond of setting their hilos the highest possible, i dunno why????!!! I set mine to the lowest and slice the bump stop about 1/2 inch to give it a slam appearance...
Total posts: 58
Last post: Dec 22, 2022 Member since:Jul 19, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
I was thinking that seeing as I have high lows it is quite possible the car is lowered with short Gaz shocks. I dont have much to base this on measurement wise but is there a spot on the car where I could measure and see its height vs stock?
OT: How do you quote a previous comment? Everytime i hit the quote button it gives me a blank responce field. Maybe you have to have posted X amount of times before it's allowed?
Total posts: 10232
Last post: Mar 26, 2024 Member since:Mar 24, 1999
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
There might not be bumpstops at the back, but the wider wheels may be hitting the wheelarches.
Total posts: 1716
Last post: Oct 18, 2020 Member since:Oct 18, 2011
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
One of the problems is that there is no benchmark.... What Derramax finds harsh may well be quite normal to many of us..(as has been mentioned before.) Maybe you can find another Minista to do an assessment before throwing too much money at a non existent problem "Its a function not a fault "
"...Back to the original post... the main complaint was concerning the rear.
With 13" tires, we can probably assume the car is not riding on the bump stops..."
Dry cars don't (mostly...) have bump stops. If you do (there is mention the the car may not be standard) getting rid of them would be step 1. There's no mention of a roll bar??
"...The gas shocks may not be functioning properly - standard shocks are sufficient and may be an economic solution..."
Unless you have twin tanks this is easily checked... remove one shock, grab it at each end and push and pull it through its operating range. At the softest setting you should be able to do this quite comfortably with your hands held out in front of you (i.e. you shouldn't have to put one end down and lean your weight on it to close it....)
"...The swing arm bearings need to be functional - do the swing arms move properly through their intended range?
The 50 series tires contribute to harshness..."
What are the factory recommended rear pressures for 13" tyres??? You wouldn't want to go too far under this ..but certainly not over...
"..The load on the rear suspension also has an effect on ride - the heavier the load, the more the rubber cones are compressed. They have a progressive spring rate: the more the are loaded, the stiffer they get..."
Although this is part of Issy's genius.. The rubber spring has a rising rate effect - it gets stiffer as it compresses to accomodate varying loads. The design objective was to provide the same ride comfort with the car full or empty. There aren't many cars deliberately (and successfully) designed to accommodate loads that are such a high proportion of the bare vehicle weight....
"...The rubber cones may look fine, but depending on their age AND source (manufacturer) AND whether they are stock or competition type, they may be partly collapsed, stiff with age or just too hard to begin with. As they say, looks aren't everything.
Lastly, the Mini ride is inherently harsher than just about every other car. The short wheelbase is a major factor. Most of the weight is on the front wheels, absorbing front harshness. The rear is lightly loaded and is easily bounced about (like an empty small boat or utility trailer)..."
I hadn't really appreciated how stiff my S was until we bought a later cars (a '73) for my Daughter to drive to school. Following the advice of our local expert I replaced the old front cones with those from the rear of another 70s Clubbie. It certainly made a difference.
There are opinions that later (13" cars) came with rear trumpets with wider sections where they sit on the cone.. (ir as originally designed for the vans/utes etc) as it provides extra stiffness to compensate for the heavier wheels... Reducing the width of the flange where it sits on the cone will soften the suspension.......
But I think you should start by finding out whether your car is abnormally stiff....
Cheers, Ian
"...Back to the original post... the main complaint was concerning the rear.
With 13" tires, we can probably assume the car is not riding on the bump stops..."
Dry cars don't (mostly...) have bump stops. If you do (there is mention the the car may not be standard) getting rid of them would be step 1. There's no mention of a roll bar??
"...The gas shocks may not be functioning properly - standard shocks are sufficient and may be an economic solution..."
Unless you have twin tanks this is easily checked... remove one shock, grab it at each end and push and pull it through its operating range. At the softest setting you should be able to do this quite comfortably with your hands held out in front of you (i.e. you shouldn't have to put one end down and lean your weight on it to close it....)
"...The swing arm bearings need to be functional - do the swing arms move properly through their intended range?
The 50 series tires contribute to harshness..."
What are the factory recommended rear pressures for 13" tyres??? You wouldn't want to go too far under this ..but certainly not over...
"..The load on the rear suspension also has an effect on ride - the heavier the load, the more the rubber cones are compressed. They have a progressive spring rate: the more the are loaded, the stiffer they get..."
Although this is part of Issy's genius.. The rubber spring has a rising rate effect - it gets stiffer as it compresses to accomodate varying loads. The design objective was to provide the same ride comfort with the car full or empty. There aren't many cars deliberately (and successfully) designed to accommodate loads that are such a high proportion of the bare vehicle weight....
"...The rubber cones may look fine, but depending on their age AND source (manufacturer) AND whether they are stock or competition type, they may be partly collapsed, stiff with age or just too hard to begin with. As they say, looks aren't everything.
Lastly, the Mini ride is inherently harsher than just about every other car. The short wheelbase is a major factor. Most of the weight is on the front wheels, absorbing front harshness. The rear is lightly loaded and is easily bounced about (like an empty small boat or utility trailer)..."
I hadn't really appreciated how stiff my S was until we bought a later cars (a '73) for my Daughter to drive to school. Following the advice of our local expert I replaced the old front cones with those from the rear of another 70s Clubbie. It certainly made a difference.
There are opinions that later (13" cars) came with rear trumpets with wider sections where they sit on the cone.. (ir as originally designed for the vans/utes etc) as it provides extra stiffness to compensate for the heavier wheels... Reducing the width of the flange where it sits on the cone will soften the suspension.......
But I think you should start by finding out whether your car is abnormally stiff....
Cheers, Ian
Total posts: 9528
Last post: Mar 27, 2024 Member since:Aug 14, 2002
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
My 70 has 13" wheels and Gaz adjustable shocks. The car handles great but the ride is really jarring in the rear when I hit a bump. Is this because of the low profile 50 series tires or the Gaz shocks? I adjusted the shocks to the softest setting and lowered the rear PSI to 26-28 psi. Was thinking of trying some KYB shocks and once my tires are worn try a set of 10" mamba wheels. Thoughts? Thanks!
With 13" tires, we can probably assume the car is not riding on the bump stops.
The gas shocks may not be functioning properly - standard shocks are sufficient and may be an economic solution.
The swing arm bearings need to be functional - do the swing arms move properly through their intended range?
The 50 series tires contribute to harshness.
The load on the rear suspension also has an effect on ride - the heavier the load, the more the rubber cones are compressed. They have a progressive spring rate: the more the are loaded, the stiffer they get.
The rubber cones may look fine, but depending on their age AND source (manufacturer) AND whether they are stock or competition type, they may be partly collapsed, stiff with age or just too hard to begin with. As they say, looks aren't everything.
Lastly, the Mini ride is inherently harsher than just about every other car. The short wheelbase is a major factor. Most of the weight is on the front wheels, absorbing front harshness. The rear is lightly loaded and is easily bounced about (like an empty small boat or utility trailer).
Try the car with the boot empty, then loaded with 50 to 100 pounds to see the effect of loading. Rear seat loads an passengers make a big difference.
.
"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
Total posts: 1368
Last post: Jul 20, 2023 Member since:Jul 15, 2008
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 117 WorkBench Posts: 1 |
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
The car handles great but the ride is really jarring…
I now have Yokohama 030's and that made a huge difference in directional stability and even reduced torque steer significantly, but it remains the "harshest" car I've ever ridden in other a Porsche race car. Passengers wonder if I'm running 100 psi in the tires. Feels like zero suspension travel—rock hard. I think that's just the nature of the beast. I suspect the only way you'll know for sure is by riding in as many Minis as possible for comparison. Good luck.
Total posts: 58
Last post: Dec 22, 2022 Member since:Jul 19, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
Floors and body are in great shape
Total posts: 1188
Last post: Aug 13, 2020 Member since:Aug 9, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
What's the condition of your flooring? If the floor has a lot of rust and holes, no matter how soft your suspension is, the car will shake and vibrate with a slight bumps on the road.
Me personally i hate driving a mini or any car that clanks and has a lot of noise inside due to loose things inside like tools, cans of soda, unbolted speakers and radio, unbolted fire extinguisher , loose window lever and door lever, i just can't stand noise inside the cabin while im driving.
( good thing my wife is a quiet person, otherwise)
Me personally i hate driving a mini or any car that clanks and has a lot of noise inside due to loose things inside like tools, cans of soda, unbolted speakers and radio, unbolted fire extinguisher , loose window lever and door lever, i just can't stand noise inside the cabin while im driving.
( good thing my wife is a quiet person, otherwise)
Total posts: 58
Last post: Dec 22, 2022 Member since:Jul 19, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
Checked and i have rubber cones that appear in good shape. I think the tight shocks and 50 series tires are the problem. If the road was halfway decent around here i wouldn't have a complaint.
Total posts: 1188
Last post: Aug 13, 2020 Member since:Aug 9, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
Total posts: 1268
Last post: Feb 23, 2020 Member since:Oct 30, 2008
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 46 WorkBench Posts: 1 |
The question is: do you have rubber cones (what Mini's usually have) or metal springs (aftermarket & what color are they?) then we can help
Total posts: 58
Last post: Dec 22, 2022 Member since:Jul 19, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
Yeah, it used to be in Oakland. Car is loads of fun, don't get me wrong. Just a little harsh on the bumps. I believe the springs were replaced but I'll have a look when i get home.
Total posts: 1268
Last post: Feb 23, 2020 Member since:Oct 30, 2008
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 46 WorkBench Posts: 1 |
Where are you located? I think I know that car, get it recently in Oakland? White interior? If it's the one I'm thinking of it's bad ass - can't have stance like that with a little discomfort but there are tons of people on the Bay Area that can look at that n tell you what's going on w the suspension - I can loan you some stock shocks if you want to try some.
Total posts: 6469
Last post: Sep 29, 2022 Member since:Nov 2, 2006
|
Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 1354 WorkBench Posts: 2 |
|
I have Koni Sport adjustable dampers on the front of the Australian Mini Van set at 1.5 (when I put in the HD tie-rods/control arms & lower arms for camber & caster). KYB dampers on the rear. Also have Moulton Smooth-a-Ride rubber cones at the 4 corners. Works well for general driving/touring.
The Konis & adjustable trumpets went on with somewhat better than beaten down rubber cones in Australia and have worked 1st with new 4 red dot rubber cones & 2nd with the new Moulton's.
PHOTO 1 - the worn out old Dunlops removed in North Rocks, NSW (and bump stops also trimmed)
PHOTO 2 - the Konis installed & set at 1 in North Rocks (left front increased to 1.5 in Cairns after some outback driving)
The Konis & adjustable trumpets went on with somewhat better than beaten down rubber cones in Australia and have worked 1st with new 4 red dot rubber cones & 2nd with the new Moulton's.
PHOTO 1 - the worn out old Dunlops removed in North Rocks, NSW (and bump stops also trimmed)
PHOTO 2 - the Konis installed & set at 1 in North Rocks (left front increased to 1.5 in Cairns after some outback driving)
Total posts: 8382
Last post: Jan 13, 2022 Member since:Feb 7, 2006
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
I really don't know TBH. Any way to tell without removal?
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
Total posts: 9528
Last post: Mar 27, 2024 Member since:Aug 14, 2002
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
I really don't know TBH. Any way to tell without removal?
.
"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
Total posts: 1944
Last post: Jan 21, 2021 Member since:Jan 1, 2005
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
FWIW, here's my experience with GAZ adjustable shocks. I installed a full set, turned each to soft, and went on a tour with a local club. The fronts were so hard the ride was jarring at every road joint, and I mean so hard they felt solid, with no damping at all. I returned the front pair and the replacements worked as they should. On the rear, they've been on too long for warranty replacement, but the right rear adjuster knob rotates freely, with no clicks or stops, nor any difference in damping. And yes, I've tried tightening the set screw on the adjuster knob and that ain't it. It's just too cold in the garage now to tip the tanks in and replace them, but I have a full set of KYB just waiting.
Total posts: 8382
Last post: Jan 13, 2022 Member since:Feb 7, 2006
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
You can see them easily when under the car. If the front end sits lower than the rear the rubber cones are usually trashed. It happens more on 90's cars as they changed the spring rate to be less harsh but they wear out quicker.
If your car sits level install a set of standard shocks you will notice the difference.
If your car sits level install a set of standard shocks you will notice the difference.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
Total posts: 58
Last post: Dec 22, 2022 Member since:Jul 19, 2016
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
I really don't know TBH. Any way to tell without removal?