I let Spank know I passed on his parts. I'm getting hammered at work and had to go in yesterday after the drive and now today again. sucks.... (yeah, I don't get paid for it either)  Not enough time to worry about anything but work for now (again) . On a normal work day I only have 1 1/2 - 2 hours between when I get home and bed time so I don't get much done. That's one reason a simple brake MC rebuild turns out to 4 months off the road. That and the booster problem and replacing the tubing.

I changed over to tapered bearings on my 7" brakes during last years front end rebuild. Are they the same as the bearings for S brakes? I didn't think they were and was planning to buy the correct ones for the upgrade.  If they're the same then I'm that much closer.     dan

 

Aside from spanks stuff you would need cv's (with castle nuts) ~$200 and bearings ...use the tapered roller bearings unless you have already swapped them out from the ball bearings. ...Maybe new ball joints.

Good input so far, keep it coming. I've got some things to look into before I jump off this bridge. I took the mini for a 100 mile run today and I'm getting more accustomed to the harder than normal pedal. Not what I want though so I need to further evaluate things and go from there. Any way I look at it I won't have enough $$ to get all the parts for the install so I'll have to live with what I've got until more $$ comes along.

Good news is my youngest daughter graduated from college last weekend so that big expense is winding down.   dan

5 thousand miles on my Mini since installing S brakes w/o booster and stock pads and no problems.

It also depends what you're running for tires - I'm running s brakes with no booster - with the extra grip of the 032R's I can't lock the front's anymore (could with the 008's) the pedal is quite wooden and heavy. On the moke I used to have twin leading drums with a booster which was great for autocross, but in the end they were only good for one hard stop from 60 before bad fade. In everyday traffic the drums with a booster would be safer - much better in a panic stop, but if you're looking for a hot street car start with the discs.     

I have S brakes and my booster failed last fall. I miss it.

Front/Rear split circa 1980 or 81.

I think that bulkhead valve is just a device to block off the rears (or front) if the pressure differential is too great as a result of a leak (and so there is still at least half of the braking). I understand there are at least 2 different bulkhead valve-type devices so not sure which one mine is (no wires going to it).

My pedal is rock hard and very high. I switched to 4-piston alloy calipers from the standard 2 piston S calipers after a while and the setup feels pretty much the same. Only 1 time did I ever experience a bit of worry, and that was decending Tuna Canyon with MOALA on their Turkey Run, but I was waaaaaaaaay overdriving on a very hot day that found everyone at the bottom with smoking brakes. That was also while using greenstuff pads.

--Spank 

Spank - Do you have the diagonal split master?  Mine has the front/rear split master and the bulkhead valve.  Maybe that's the difference.

If I read the original question right, it was should I buy the servo now and use it with my 998 brakes, or buy the "S" brakes and wait for the servo. In my opinion there is no question. Upgrade to the "S" brakes. The servo can come later and I doubt it will do much good with the 998 brakes. ( I assume they are twin leading shoes).

I like no servo on my BeanCar's 7.5" for performance driving, but my wife's 8.4" discs with servo is nice for puttering about town.

I echo the sentiment for putting smaller rear wheel cylinders (.5" on. I used the Bean Car's dual line master cylinder with bulkhead valve and 3/4" rear cylinders and would get tail-happy if I EVER touched the brakes in any sort of turn. In autocross it was nearly a guaranteed spin when I had toe-out on the rear. Rears would lock up way too early in damp weather, as well.  Putting .5" rears on really made the back end stable and made me faster on the track because I know if I need to brake in a turn for some reason I can and am able to maintain some stability.

 --Spank

My 67 S had a servo when I bought it. I didn't have the vacuum plummed to it when I got it on the road. The brakes were fine. Then I hooked up the vacuum, and WHOA! A real car with real brakes. I loved it. Then, the servo began to fail. When I pulled my engine recently I removed the servo for service. I am currently driving without it. I HATE it. The brakes are like bricks. To anyone who says it isn't better, here is my analagy. Would you remove lug nuts with a 4 inch wrench or a 18 inch wrench? The added power makes a noticable difference. If you have a good servo, use it.

No servo vote here.

I can't comment on feel either as neither of mine have had a servo.  I've never considered the pedal to be hard to push.  Not having a servo is one less bit to worry about. 

They do work just fine without the servo.  This - http://videos.streetfire.net/video/CVO-Autox-5-Car-998_173139.htm - is with no servo and pads I pulled out of a big box o' random pads I bought from someone.  I run 3/4 cylinders in the rear and haven't had problems with the rears locking up.

I've run S brakes the last 15 years with no servo.
I've used Lockheed, Bendix, Ferodo and EBC pads. The Greenstuffs are good for track days or fanging up in them thar hills, but for city and suburban driving I find Blackstuffs hard to beat.
Greens are a bit dead until you've done a couple of stops. Blacks bite well from cold, and the current ones will stand a bit of heat, unlike the early Blacks.

I've got green EBC's and drilled/slotted rotors that I won at MMW last year to go on it. I'm just trying to get the rest to finish it all off. The greens will work well for me because most the roads I want to drive are 2 lane mountain (if you can call what we have here in So Cal mountains) roads so I plan to keep 'em nice and warm.   

Thx Rick, that's good to know and thx everyone so far for all the good info.  dan

Brake pads ; on my 60 mini with booster and S brakes I used EBC green pads. I liked using those brakes with a booster.

On my British Open I'm using drilled and slotted rotors and EBC black pads. I think for everyday driving the black EBC's are the best  IMHO.

Regards,

Joe

Brake pads will make a heap of difference too.  I have EBC Greenstuff pads under Cooper S calipers and in Northern California hill country it felt like I had sticky rubber brake pads - once warmed up, they stopped the car going down hill with very little effort and no brake fade.  Where I am now, in flat country, the Greenstuff pads never get warm enough to properly 'grab' the rotors and it takes more effort than I wish it did to stop my car fast.  I haven't bought Blackstuff pads yet, but I hear those are the 'bees knees' for performance braking in every day conditions where heat-induced brake fade is not as much of a concern. 

Mini hi-jack: I need to find someone who wants to swap my Greenstuffs with 75% left on them for Blackstuffs.

Well I have never driven "S" brakes with a booster so I'll go with what those who use them say about brake feel etc.

However to answer your question...yes you can certainly lock up the front brakes without a booster.  Graham liked my "save" on the 2007 MMW rally and a panic stop a half mile from home avoided a collision with an oncoming left turning car that crossed into my path (yup and stopped there).  We have used "S" discs on two Minis without servos on the street and on the race track.

Just make sure you have narrow bore rear wheel cylinders (or limiter valve) or you will lock up the rear brakes first and maybe swap ends very quickly.

From a simplicity point of view, no servo, one less sytem to fuss about, and less clutter in a cramped engine bay.

Yes but I have never tried them without one.

TTFia64 - are you running a booster with your S brakes?   dan