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 Posted: Nov 18, 2014 05:18PM
Total posts: 606
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US
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

just by eye-balling it, one can tell that it is being lubricated through tiny holes within the joints, and you will notice that oil is spewing out from the side of the joints as it swings up and down , the higher you rev the more oil that comes out, same oil goes down to lubricate the springs. 

a thicker oil like 20W50 is best for this application, thick and has cushion effect on metal to metal connections. and also at high revs and high temps...

10w40 a thinner oil migt speed up wear and tear. trust me!!

this time, Haynes is correct in telling us to use 20w50, hmm im starting to like Haynes booklet now

Ok, we now you are set in your ways. For the rest out there, read and think for yourselves. Yes, well worn Mini's should run 20W-50. Newly rebuilt ones shouldn't if properly rebuilt.

BTW, at high reves it ends up pushing past the bypass valves, so don't kid yourself. And a cushion forms under pressure, and has to get where it is needed to form it, replacing itself quickly as it goes.

 Posted: Nov 18, 2014 04:18PM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet

I don't know of ANY car engines that have internally lubricated camshafts. Or even any that have oil sprayed directly on them. Can you name any? 

The A-Series in a Mini.
The higher-end billet cams take pressurised oil from the bearings, feed it down through the cam and out through holes in the lobes to lubricate the cam followers better.  Piper, Kent and Swiftune all do this.

Nobster is still a fool though.

Hi Alex,

Interesting. Do the stock A-series cams have any oil passages?

 

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Nov 18, 2014 08:28AM
Total posts: 598
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just by eye-balling it, one can tell that it is being lubricated through tiny holes within the joints, and you will notice that oil is spewing out from the side of the joints as it swings up and down , the higher you rev the more oil that comes out, same oil goes down to lubricate the springs. 

a thicker oil like 20W50 is best for this application, thick and has cushion effect on metal to metal connections. and also at high revs and high temps...

10w40 a thinner oil migt speed up wear and tear. trust me!!

this time, Haynes is correct in telling us to use 20w50, hmm im starting to like Haynes booklet now

 

 Posted: Nov 18, 2014 08:11AM
Total posts: 10237
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GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet

I don't know of ANY car engines that have internally lubricated camshafts. Or even any that have oil sprayed directly on them. Can you name any? 

The A-Series in a Mini.
The higher-end billet cams take pressurised oil from the bearings, feed it down through the cam and out through holes in the lobes to lubricate the cam followers better.  Piper, Kent and Swiftune all do this.

Nobster is still a fool though.

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 05:41PM
Total posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet

Mr robster/roloster

What ARE you talking about? You have never seen my engine compartment. It is not "all black". It does not have fuses next to the master cylinders. I do not mistreat my Mini.  I do not run my Mini with the rocker cover off. My Mini does not leak oil - anywhere. Last of all, I do not have "big bucks".

How can anyone help but take you the "wrong way" when you spout nonsense, don't even know basic terminology or technology of an engine, refuse to consider sound advice and then abuse those who are trying to help you learn (courteously).

You don't even have the guts or dangly bits to post your real name, yet you delight in twisting, mixing up, mangling and otherwise abusing the names (real or otherwise) of those who are trying to help you. It is down to the point you've even mangled your own screen name.

I pity your Mini. Such a waste.

Now, where's that "IGNORE" button?

 

Im at work on my phone - that account.  I dont mean to offend mr. Tuffet, but here I am performing interesting surgery on an oil filter to help educate everyone here.  We are all learning, we all should have patience with each other.

I'm sorry to point out the problem's you're having with oil splattering,,, but we are all here to be honest and upfront and not hide the ugly truth right? I'm telling ya, if you can get a compressed air gun, they're like $99 at harbor freight - you can blast that stuff right outa there.  Takes just a minute man!  Then no more icky black engine compartment, just the way Issogonis wanted it...

that's all Im sayin...

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 04:25PM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by roloster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

yes someone here pointed out that splashing is important in lubrication system,,, well yes splashing should happen inside the crankshaft, but not in the cams, it should be lubricated internally and not just splash aroung the head cover. my goodness

Again Robster, you need to look at a manual. When you look into the valve cover, you are NOT seeing the cam shaft. It is about 8 inches or so deep down in the engine. You are looking at the valve rockers, which are mounted on the rocker shaft. Pressurized oil is fed through the head up into the rocker shaft where it intentionally leaks onto the rockers. They rock back and forth very quickly tossing oil everywhere, including onto the valve springs and stems. Oil also gets onto the pushrods, and drains down them onto the cam followers (solid lifters) and eventually onto the cam shaft. If oil didn't splash about, the valve stems would dry out and seize, the cam and lifters would wear out and you'd have a nice boat anchor.

Now, as to your theory about the red rubber thingy, if you look at the video link you posted, ALL the fllters he had apart had the same piece. Watch about 2:14 into the video.

Whoever that guy is, he can't even PI$$ straight.

 

mr. Tuffet i am trying to help so please don't take me the wrong way,,, look at the picture of your engine comparment - it's all black.  i am trying to keep my car as pristine as Alec Issogonis would keep it, so i cant mistreat it like yours is....

with your valves splashing oil everywhere that's gonna wreck your electrical, those fuzes are right there next to the master cylinders,,,how are you able to clean it all up? i don't have the big dollars like u able to buy a quart with each tank of gas lol.

what is so hard about putting a valve cover on,,,can't you try to do it like the other guys? just my 2cents

Mr robster/roloster

What ARE you talking about? You have never seen my engine compartment. It is not "all black". It does not have fuses next to the master cylinders. I do not mistreat my Mini.  I do not run my Mini with the rocker cover off. My Mini does not leak oil - anywhere. Last of all, I do not have "big bucks".

How can anyone help but take you the "wrong way" when you spout nonsense, don't even know basic terminology or technology of an engine, refuse to consider sound advice and then abuse those who are trying to help you learn (courteously).

You don't even have the guts or dangly bits to post your real name, yet you delight in twisting, mixing up, mangling and otherwise abusing the names (real or otherwise) of those who are trying to help you. It is down to the point you've even mangled your own screen name.

I pity your Mini. Such a waste.

Now, where's that "IGNORE" button?

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 02:39PM
 Edited:  Nov 17, 2014 02:46PM
Total posts: 21
Last post: Nov 19, 2014
Member since:Nov 17, 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

yes someone here pointed out that splashing is important in lubrication system,,, well yes splashing should happen inside the crankshaft, but not in the cams, it should be lubricated internally and not just splash aroung the head cover. my goodness

Again Robster, you need to look at a manual. When you look into the valve cover, you are NOT seeing the cam shaft. It is about 8 inches or so deep down in the engine. You are looking at the valve rockers, which are mounted on the rocker shaft. Pressurized oil is fed through the head up into the rocker shaft where it intentionally leaks onto the rockers. They rock back and forth very quickly tossing oil everywhere, including onto the valve springs and stems. Oil also gets onto the pushrods, and drains down them onto the cam followers (solid lifters) and eventually onto the cam shaft. If oil didn't splash about, the valve stems would dry out and seize, the cam and lifters would wear out and you'd have a nice boat anchor.

Now, as to your theory about the red rubber thingy, if you look at the video link you posted, ALL the fllters he had apart had the same piece. Watch about 2:14 into the video.

Whoever that guy is, he can't even PI$$ straight.

 

mr. Tuffet i am trying to help so please don't take me the wrong way,,, look at the picture of your engine comparment - it's all black.  i am trying to keep my car as pristine as Alec Issogonis would keep it, so i cant mistreat it like yours is....

with your valves splashing oil everywhere that's gonna wreck your electrical, those fuzes are right there next to the master cylinders,,,how are you able to clean it all up? i don't have the big dollars like u able to buy a quart with each tank of gas lol.

what is so hard about putting a valve cover on,,,can't you try to do it like the other guys? just my 2cents

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 02:29PM
 Edited:  Nov 17, 2014 02:36PM
Total posts: 9542
Last post: Apr 18, 2024
Member since:Aug 14, 2002
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

yes someone here pointed out that splashing is important in lubrication system,,, well yes splashing should happen inside the crankshaft, but not in the cams, it should be lubricated internally and not just splash aroung the head cover. my goodness

Again Robster, you need to look at a manual. When you look into the valve cover, you are NOT seeing the cam shaft. It is about 8 inches or so deep down in the engine. You are looking at the valve rockers, which are mounted on the rocker shaft. Pressurized oil is fed through the head up into the rocker shaft where it intentionally leaks onto the rockers. They rock back and forth very quickly tossing oil everywhere, including onto the valve springs and stems. Oil also gets onto the pushrods, and drains down them onto the cam followers (solid lifters) and eventually onto the cam shaft. If oil didn't splash about, the valve stems would dry out and seize, the cam and lifters would wear out and you'd have a nice boat anchor.

I don't know of ANY car engines that have internally lubricated camshafts. Or even any that have oil sprayed directly on them. Can you name any?

Now, as to your theory about the red rubber thingy, if you look at the video link you posted, ALL the fllters he had apart had the same piece. Watch about 2:14 into the video.

Whoever that guy is, he can't even PI$$ straight.

 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 10:48AM
 Edited:  Nov 17, 2014 10:54AM
Total posts: 606
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US

The actual cams on the camshaft of a Mini are 100% spash oiled. The bearings have presurized oil.

 

The only way that maybe you could clean some of the contaminantes out of a used filter would be to fource a thin oil through the center shaft and somehow hold the red flapper valves open so the flushed, dirty oil could come out through there. Ant that is theoretical at best. What is actually embeded in the filter media and causes the flow resistance is stuck there. Sort of like backing a tractor trailer out of a traffic maze without using the steering wheel.

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 10:38AM
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yes someone here pointed out that splashing is important in lubrication system,,, well yes splashing should happen inside the crankshaft, but not in the cams, it should be lubricated internally and not just splash aroung the head cover. my goodness

 

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 09:42AM
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I have found that you get a lot less splashing and a much cleaner filter by just removing the oil altogether.  

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 08:37AM
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The last time i checked Fram was not the ONLY brand of oil filter available. Cut that old Unipart filter open you will see what you missed with your "cleaning procedure".

"Explore experiment and discover" no problems with any of that as long as it is not DETRIMENTAL to the Mini which most if not ALL of your "fixes" are.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 07:55AM
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well considering the magnetic plug , did you see it malsal? maybe not, maybe you are just being so paranoid about all these oil filter  issue, it depends on how you clean it, i mean i clean it thoroughly, i have a way of cleaning it , i use pressurized air and a pressurized common sense(which some dont have, ooops). as i have told you before malsal, dont box yourself, explore experiment and discover! 

id rathe used a proven use good old filter than a brand new oil filter in which there are a lot stupidity goin on inside it, like torn filter element etc... copish?

 

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 06:15AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

of course i didnt just re-used the old filter, i did a thorough cleaning with pressurized air,, a thoroughly cleansed unipart is better than fram. 

unipart does not have that stupid red rubber backflow thingy that is blocking the holes, i dont wanna take the risk, those rubber might stick in the opening and starve the engine with oil and sieze ... id  rather use the old filter

here's the red rubber backflow thing , the most stupid thing in the oil filter world, i mean next to a radiator not having a drain pipe. ( its still the most stupidest / radiator without a drain pipe, dumb) lol

If you think for one moment that you have successfully cleaned that old filter to a point where it will filter oil as well as it should you are very delusional. As i have said before i pity the poor guy that buys your car after you're finished with you back alley cobbled up fixes.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Nov 17, 2014 12:07AM
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 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 07:47PM
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of course i didnt just re-used the old filter, i did a thorough cleaning with pressurized air,, a thoroughly cleansed unipart is better than fram. 

unipart does not have that stupid red rubber backflow thingy that is blocking the holes, i dont wanna take the risk, those rubber might stick in the opening and starve the engine with oil and sieze ... id  rather use the old filter

here's the red rubber backflow thing , the most stupid thing in the oil filter world, i mean next to a radiator not having a drain pipe. ( its still the most stupidest / radiator without a drain pipe, dumb) lol

 

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 07:33PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

 

consumer alert!!!!

 

ok..here's an update:

i tossed this orange Fram jurassic oil filter thingie and put the old Unipart.,drained the 10w40 and replaced it with 20w50...now the pressure immediatel kick up to 40-50psi. the temp gauge is at 50% consistent for 30mins ....

i peep inside the valve cover using a flashlight, i noticed when using 10w40,the oil splashes when i rev it,  the oil that's supposed to be lubricating the cam joints splashes away, BUT when using 20w50, i rev'd hard  i notice no spalashing of oil, and quite noticeably, i see it with my two eyes, the oil were concentrated on the cams and moving parts, at least the most that i can see when i peep inside the valve cover opening.... 

my Verdict:---> quit using 10w40...stick with 20w50,,it gives more engine protection...now i'm starting to trust Haynes...lol

and stay away from Fram filters...my goodness!!!

If you used the old filter with new oil that is dumb. A good idea would have been to reserch the compatible oil filters on this message board or if that is too long of a job for you ask your local parts store which filters cross reference with the Fram one you tossed.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 04:14PM
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US
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster

i still think that 10w40 is too thin for classic mini engines...imo

and i get all sorts of oil leak,,, axle seal leak etc, but with 20w50, leak's gone, i swear

Well, my engine has been assembled for 13 months, but in theory I'm picking it up from the body shop this week and will try to connect all the wires and accessory parts to start the engine. As I rebuilt it to standard measurements, I'll be starting with 10W-40 as the manual says. if it leaks, I'll let you know.

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 04:02PM
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i still think that 10w40 is too thin for classic mini engines...imo

and i get all sorts of oil leak,,, axle seal leak etc, but with 20w50, leak's gone, i swear

 

 Posted: Nov 16, 2014 03:56PM
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Sorry, but you bring up an excellent point, and in teaching lubrication we don't stress this enough.

Actually you want to see it splashing away. It is called splash lubrication. The oil circulates through holes in the engine and tubes under pressure to many areas. The rest, like the pistons and much of the valve train, depend on getting a good splash of oil. The better the splash, the better the lubrication.

Thanks for bringing it up.

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