Fuel pump question
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Mar 17, 2018 08:02AM | Dan Moffet | Edited: Mar 17, 2018 08:12AM |
Mar 17, 2018 05:15AM | thebluepotato | Edited: Mar 17, 2018 05:18AM |
Mar 16, 2018 07:14AM | mur | |
Mar 16, 2018 07:13AM | thebluepotato | |
Mar 16, 2018 07:03AM | thebluepotato | |
Mar 15, 2018 05:32PM | mur | |
Mar 15, 2018 03:44PM | dklawson | |
Mar 15, 2018 12:23PM | thebluepotato | |
Mar 15, 2018 12:11PM | jedduh01 | |
Mar 15, 2018 12:05PM | thebluepotato | |
Mar 15, 2018 12:05PM | 850mini | |
Mar 15, 2018 12:00PM | onetim | |
Mar 15, 2018 11:31AM | thebluepotato |
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Reminds me of the challenges I went through for an apparent "over- pressure" problem on a HIF44 - two different ones actually.
First photo is the collection of components to go from the mechanical pump to the carb, including a regulator and in-line filter. The black line is the cross-over pipe covered in reflective insulation and cable wrap to hold it in place - an attempt to eliminate the possibility of vapour lock or hot fuel. The long pipe at the bottom is the crossover pipe routed below the bulkhead cross-member, used when the mechanical pump was removed and fuel temp/vapour lock was confirmed to not be an issue.
Second photo is of the installed setup. What it doesn't show is the change from the mechanical pump to an big Facet electric one in the boot, to eventually a proper SU pump under the boot where it should be. (If the Facet sucked air, it sounded like a machine gun!)
Third photo is of the current and successful setup - no regulator and just the filter in the engine bay where it is easy to check condition and flow and eventually replace.
My real problem: Float needle valves (both carbs) with insufficient tolerance - when they warmed up, the needle would expand just enough to stick closed or open.
Most people are probably not aware that the fuel level in a Mini tank when nearly full is enough to prime the system right up to the carb bowl. I found that out the hard way, when the float valve stuck open and fuel drained right through the carb and down into the engine sump, while the car was put up for the winter. Now I never store it with a full tank.
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"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."
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So we started looking at the fuel pressure with just the small generic inline filter and kink at back of tank and got all sorts of wonky readings....started out a 3psi then went to 7 and back down...so we quickly fixed the kink and removed the generic filter. Went back to the Filter King and now started to hunt for the right psi. It was easy at this point to lock it down around 2.5psi, but required to adjust that regulator a lot more than what we did a couple weeks ago. You get ZERO help with the FK instructions and clearly we should have started with the pressure gauge from day 1. Lesson learned.
Once we got that locked in, fixed at the same time the left SU as it was overflowing and leaking...a few manly bangs on the side of the float chamber, settled the needle back into shape and bob's you uncle. Ran him outside and next to timing and vac. All checked here...had some weirdness with the Swiiftune CSI ignition - could always get 10 degrees at idle, but hard to get right timing at WOT - so did a quick reset and picked the right ignition map and done there.
Pressure is steady and runs so much better now. Pictures attached recapping the day of "find the right pressure" games. Even had some time to get a badge and bonnet strap into place. Really chuffed with how he is running....still have a slight fuel smell in boot even with vent line secured with a nice sized (and tight) grommet...not sure if this is just par for the course...thanks again to everyone's help.
Edit: Decided not to go with the electronic pump....staying with the mechanical for now. Works perfectly. Also need to invest in a fire shield (fuel line protector) where it is now on back of engine...just in a very hot spot and want to protect that line from the extractors.
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It sounds like your plumbing scheme is OK. As with electricity, start with where the load is and work your way backwards to see where you are loosing flow. In this case, disconnect the line at the carbs and look for fuel flow. If you have flow there... the problem is inside the carbs. If you don't have flow, move backwards from the front to the back checking for fuel flow at each place there is a connection.
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It sounds like your plumbing scheme is OK. As with electricity, start with where the load is and work your way backwards to see where you are loosing flow. In this case, disconnect the line at the carbs and look for fuel flow. If you have flow there... the problem is inside the carbs. If you don't have flow, move backwards from the front to the back checking for fuel flow at each place there is a connection.
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Tank --- > Filter ----> Mechanical pump ----> Carb???
If thats the case i have my own doubts the mechanical pump will draw enough THRU the filter assy?
I Have a friend with same filter assembly.
He runs = Tank -----> Facet Square Low Pressure Pump ---->>> Filter assembly = Carbs.. Works flawlessly. you're using the filter + regulator to ' regulate the pressurized fuel from the pump.
Tank (original) ---> Rubber Fuel Line ---> Metal Fuel Line ---> Mechanical Pump ---> Filter King ---> copper carb line split to HS2s.
[Adjusted fuel pressure on FK blindly, yes, not the right way to do this]
to now:
Tank (original) ---> Rubber Fuel Line ---> Metal Fuel Line ---> Mechanical Pump ---> plastic filter ---> copper carb line split to HS2s.
[Barely filled the small inline filter and had to prime]
To tomorrow:
Tank (original) ---> Rubber Fuel Line ---> Electronic Pump (Delphi in-line unit) ---> Metal Fuel Line ---> Filter King (setting at 2-3psi) ---> copper carb line split to HS2s. (Fuel Pressure Gauge to monitor pressure after Fuel King)
That's what I am thinking anyway.
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Tank --- > Filter ----> Mechanical pump ----> Carb???
If thats the case i have my own doubts the mechanical pump will draw enough THRU the filter assy?
I Have a friend with same filter assembly.
He runs = Tank -----> Facet Square Low Pressure Pump ---->>> Filter assembly = Carbs.. Works flawlessly. you're using the filter + regulator to ' regulate the pressurized fuel from the pump.
Total posts: 288
Last post: Jun 9, 2020 Member since:May 13, 2010
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my Classic Mini Podcast - Classic Mini Breakdown, www.classicminibreakdown.com
Basil - 1974 Mini 1000 /// THE BLOG: www.thebluepotato.net/blog
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Tomorrow me and my buddy will get a fuel pressure gauge on the lines to see what is happening.
In the meantime, I picked up this Delphi electrical pump from Napa as a backup measure...I can get the psi down to 3 or so with the regulator, but is the gph too high here? I assume there is no way to reduce the gph. Just wanted to make sure before I connect this to see if this gives me stable fuel delivery with the Filter King (vs mechanical which may be faulty). And yes, I have a rubber fuel line kink that I am correcting (from another post last week).
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/DFPFD0037
Average Current Draw | 2 A |
Average Flow Rating | 27 gph |
Fuel Type | Gas |
Gasket Or Seal Included | No |
Inlet Fitting Thread Size | 1/8 in. - 27 NPSF |
Inlet Type | Female Threaded |
Maximum Pressure | 3 psi |
New or Remanufactured | New |
Outlet Fitting Thread Size | 1/8 in. - 27 |
Outlet Type | Female Threaded |
Pump Location | External |
Pump Type | Electric |
Strainer Included | No |
System Pressure | 4 psi |
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Check out my Classic Mini Podcast - Classic Mini Breakdown, www.classicminibreakdown.com
Basil - 1974 Mini 1000 /// THE BLOG: www.thebluepotato.net/blog
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