never bought a new car, or leased one, but they were all new to me. Ah, a minivan with a stick, that’s living! I miss my column shift 81 Chevy PU.

Yes, I got a big sticker shock. I have a 2009 F-150 I bought new. We use it for towing boats and a cargo trailer. It's just starting to get rough around the edges from being in saltwater and driven on treated roads, so I figured I'd consider a new one, ya right, I paid $26K cash in '09 it has A/C, cruise, 4wd, limited slip, alloys, power windows, big cab, V-8 etc etc. A new replacement with most of the same level of equipment with a V-6 turbo is $45K! I'm thinking a couple grand to have some paint work done is a bargain at this point.

Oh and they offer more than 72 month financing, you've got to be stoned or stupic to finance a vehicle for 6 years or more, it's a bad idea to finance a depreciating asset in the first place, to stretch it out to 6+ years is criminal.

Not since 2004.
Of course I haven't shopped for a new vehicle since 2004. When we buy a vehicle it is to keep it for a long time. We choose vehicles that suit our needs and lifestyle, not fashion or gadgets.
Our history: 1979 AMC Spirit 304V8 auto (still mostly original at the end including factory shocks - fuel got too expensive) , 1989 Dodge Caravan 2.4L Turbo 4 with 5-speed Getrag manual transmission (still ran like a sports car but computer was getting iffy and was too rare to be replaced), 2001: '81 Mini, 2004 Suzuki Grand Vitara V6, 5-speed (still runs like new) and 2010 Suzuki SX4 4-cyl front wheel drive (economy commuting vehicle).
So that's 10 years (Spirit), 15 years (Caravan), 17 years (Mini), 14 and counting (Vitara) and 8 and counting (SX4). If we downsize the SX4 will be the one to go.

We may have gotten a little OT OT...  Mostly my fault, but at least it ain't stressing you out.

How about this.  Some of you have already answered this.  Is there anyone that has been discouraged to purchase a new vehicle based on sticker shock?  Regardless of make or model / features or lack there of.  

There was even a recent used car that I was looking at but didn't have cruise control but did have hands free BT.  I do a lot of driving and one of the ways I keep from getting speeding tickets is to use CC.  (My current POS works as low as 20 mph for school zones.)  

Cars are now the horses. When people needed transportation we used horses and mules. At first they were expensive but as more people used them the prices went down. Maintenance costs went down with mass produced shoes and nails ect. Automobiles appeared and were expensive until Ford did what he did. Cost of ownership went down and so did the amount of people using horses for transport. Now only rich people have horses as a hobby and everyone uses cars. The same thing is going to happen to combustion powered cars. As electric and autonomous cars become less expensive gasoline powered cars will become the next rich guy hobby. Cars are now the horses.   
      

The primary purpose of an automobile is and always has been to move people and property from point A to point B, safely, economically and with a degree of comfort. By that measure, new cars continue to deliver an ever higher standard, year after year, decade after decade—faster, safer, cleaner and better in every way. I would even argue that new cars have become simpler, at least in terms of what is required of the car’s owner. Not long ago every car owner needed to know how to fix his or her car. I can remember the dads in the neighborhood where I grew up spending at least half the weekend with their heads under the hood of the family sedan, not because they enjoyed it necessarily, but because that’s what it took to keep it running. Today’s cars are technological marvels that require trained specialists and high-end diagnostic equipment and an astonishingly minimal amount of attention from the owner. Instead of spending the weekend in the driveway with grease stains on our coveralls, the car goes to the shop and we get a brand new loner car and go about our business. What could be simpler?

 

The rub is that some of us expect our cars to provide more than safety, economy and comfort. For some of us, speed, style, vanity and nostalgia are part of the equation. Naturally, as new cars continue to evolve there is a sense that we are losing something in the exchange. And of course we are. Automakers are happy to provide us with the illusion that their latest offerings can give back to us those tactile pleasures we associate with the cars of our childhoods, going so far as to “pipe-in” phony exhaust noise. It’s a lie. Does anyone really think that a new Mustang, Porsche or Ferrari resemble in any way those marques two or three decades ago? Nope. Not even close. Shut your eyes and hop into a new Aston Martin Vantage and tell me you’re not riding in a Chrysler 300. It’s well known that Gen-X, Gen-Y and Millennials are no longer interested in cars or even in getting driver’s licenses. If you ask me, young people have a much more realistic view of the automobile and it’s future than people of my generation.

 

We are at a crossroad. Rather than continue to straddle these two increasingly divergent realities and drag this baloney out any longer, we should just get over it and embrace new cars for what they are; great transportation. Besides, in less than a decade we’ll click on our iPhones and call up a driverless Uber car to take us to wherever we need to go. I, for one, can’t wait. Where does that leave my Mini? It’s a hobby. Duh.

Ian: yes.
TPMS means Tire Pressure Management System.
Then he drifted off on a tangent about autonomous cars (self-driving to us ). Then he lamented about the the loss of life involving self driving vehicles and the denial of responsibility of the manufacturer vs owner vs the person in "control".

I side with the general feeling that all this superfluous technology is becoming more and more un-needed and makes life for most of us more problematic and risky.

Does any of this make any sense to anyone?????

Ian

No I am pretty much spot on about insurance.  People are actually required to have insurance, I bet there were a few people that didn't back in those days.  Not saying it was anyone on here but I can imagine there were some gambling folks that got away with it.  

Your previous comment about insurance, maintenance etc. being more expensive may not be entirely true. I suspect the relative place of a mechanic's or any tradesperson's salary compared to the economy in general is probably about the same as it was. Insurance may be higher due to the higher risk associated with many more cars on the road and of course the kneejerk reaction to sue and some of the ridiculous judgements that are rendered. Repairs are more complicated because, like most manufactured items these day, things are cheaper to replace than repair

Another great one.
That list is endless.  TPMS when it first became mandatory were needlessly and in some cases still are very costly.  I believe the reason they became required is because a certain manufacturer told the dealer to tell the customer to lower the tire pressure to get greater comfort.  Everyone was surprised when the vehicle was prone to rolling over and killing its occupants. 

Poignant on the autonomous.  First, such a shame to lose a life regardless of fault.  It is being proven again and again, it'll be a long while until the technology is there.  A fully aware and available human is still the only safe way to move from point a to point b.  And yes that technology does make driving safer, but at what COST?

It also amazes me how a certain company knowingly sold a "cheating" vehicle and still operates to this day.  OH WAIT.  There current plan is to sell vehicles that start at no less than about 19k.  Mind you they really don't have many of those and there real plan is to sell SUVs starting at about 23k.  By the way don't know if I mentioned it on here or not: Kudos to figuring out a way to cheat.  Sucks to be you for getting caught.  (Racers prerogative.)  I remember when I was getting yelled at by my RC competitors because I didn't disable reverse on my electronic speed controller.  I stunk anyways and was never going to come close to winning.   

If you have paid attention to what the government expects from new car makers every few years, it's no wonder cars are so expensive. They are constantly being ordered to reduce emissions, get more miles per gallon, go electric/ hybrid, make them so safe, a 5 year old could drive one, or better still, make them autonomous. Where does it stop? 

I work on new and used cars everyday, and am blown away every year the new models come out, and I get to look at those crazy window stickers. When I saw a $70k Tahoe, I had enough. For what? my first house was half that.

I know I'd like to own a new one again one day, but.......

Probably not going to happen.

Awesome.  To your point about how cars are actually less expensive compared to then, everything else that has to do with cars are more expensive.  Maintnance, repair and upgrades.  Fuel, insurance and registration.  
Us as consumers, man we are stupic.  Now what I run into is buying a used car off a lease.  I might buy that person who treats the leased car like a rental car.  (My thought process is, it's not mine what should I care.  Never stuffed, (got) ticketed or broke one, but when I was alone NFG).

The cost of new cars, and the massive depreciation that occurs in the first few years, are now often hidden by new car leases. Many are sold on the thought that anything that goes wrong will be covered, and that nothing will go wrong, which is not usually the case. Then of course there's the thrill of being the first butt in the seat, and getting a brand new car! every 3 years. Tell them what they won Don, payments for life! nothing is free in life, you pay.
I struck a deal with my wife that if I did not buy myself a newer car, sold mine, and drove her old one, I could buy a 62 mini.  I could not be happier 

I don't know if new cars are becoming too expensive - it kinda depends on the economy and the average earnings per year. Away back in the 1970's I was making CDN $5k - $6k (fresh out of college) per year and in 1975 a new FIAT x/1-9 cost about $5K-6K. It wasn't a luxury car but it wasn't an econobox either. If I wasn't retired now, I'd probably be making $50K - $60 or more per year. If I was buying a new car now, a good, production car that would satisfy my daily driver needs might cost $20K to $30K. So, in theory, cars are cheaper relative to average income.

HOWEVER>>>
What they put into cars nowadays is amazing/terrifying... but that's where the profit lies. Bluetooth, WIFI, dashcams, entertainment systems, backup assist, automatic braking, self-driving, tire pressure sensors... you name it. None of these features, many of which become 'standard' are unnecessary to drive an average family to the store for groceries or to team practices etc. Remember when power windows, cruise control etc. were options? Some buyers want certain features and for each, the car maker gets to a decision point where it is cheaper for him to install them in all cars than to split production. That bumps the price up for the guy who doesn't want/need the feature.
Case in point: my 2010 Suzuki SX4 (bought used) is the bare bones, plain Jane model - 4cyl front wheel drive CTV transmission. It has AC and electric windows and mirrors  but not roof rack rails. It has a stereo/CD player capable of receiving satellite radio and an aux input, neither of which I'll ever use (I have yet to put a CD in it too ). It also has blank-out panels in place of many of the features found in its rich cousins the all-wheel drive versions - driving lights, about 5 switches for who knows what. It does not have cruise control. The seats are not as plush either.

I shudder to think about the learning curve we will face when it comes time to replace our vehicles. All those digital and electronic systems and features to learn and comprehend. Makes me love my Mini even more. In fact the logical thing and maybe cheaper in the long run would be to get a second or third Mini so there's always one ready to be driven, summer or winter.

In the morning shift: first gear... https://bit.ly/2GiuyHp 


Tuesday March 27th
In my summary... Someone is just now realising that in the very near future little to no new cars are going to be sold.  Because too expensive.  ("Yeah no poopies.")  The writer also blamed a single car manufacturer for losing the heritage of "the peoples car."  

My questions for you lot, because reading the comments on there are annoying. 
1.) Have cars become too expensive?
2.) Without blaming consumers (which is "Captain Obvious") whom else could be blamed for this problem?