Created by: Found 25 Messages
Posted:
Apr 2, 2019
07:10AM
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Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
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Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
This topic thread wouldn't be fully adquate without my update. I have torqued my front disc/CV driveshafts on two cars but at least 2 or more years ago when they were initially set up (they don't get a lot of miles). The reason for explaining this is I don't do some tasks on my cars frequent enough to remember every step I used years before. Obviously that is why there are manuals to refer to.
Guess what, one step I read when I started the current re-greasing of front bearings project, I forgot about when I got to where the step should have been done. That step is: the "special washer required for fitting the drivceshaft on disc brake models". In my Haynes it is on page 10.4. When I did go back to read the steps *(after I had started this forum thread) I saw the "special washer" step was one I hadn't conducted. In fact I think I realized I have never conducted that step on my previous work years before.
SO.... I created a makeshift washer, did the step as indicated - essentially torquing the bearing and disc assembly with the washer method, removing the temporary "special washer", and then using the split collar and castle nut, and guess what!
I then had no difficulty getting the left side castle nut and pin hole on drive shaft to line up at 200 lb ft and on the right side lined up at 190 lb ft. Process complete.
Guess what, one step I read when I started the current re-greasing of front bearings project, I forgot about when I got to where the step should have been done. That step is: the "special washer required for fitting the drivceshaft on disc brake models". In my Haynes it is on page 10.4. When I did go back to read the steps *(after I had started this forum thread) I saw the "special washer" step was one I hadn't conducted. In fact I think I realized I have never conducted that step on my previous work years before.
SO.... I created a makeshift washer, did the step as indicated - essentially torquing the bearing and disc assembly with the washer method, removing the temporary "special washer", and then using the split collar and castle nut, and guess what!
I then had no difficulty getting the left side castle nut and pin hole on drive shaft to line up at 200 lb ft and on the right side lined up at 190 lb ft. Process complete.
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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Total posts: 8382
Last post: Jan 13, 2022 Member since:Feb 7, 2006
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I just finished doing my Estate with the single hole cv's. One side was exactly on the hole at 150 lb the other side i went to 165 lb.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
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Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank
Ever seen this before? Two on the same day?
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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Total posts: 8382
Last post: Jan 13, 2022 Member since:Feb 7, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoren
That is a technique I read somewhere before. Obviously it can work and I'm guessing doesn't weaken the nut. Does this challenge to hit the slot and hole happen any where besides the Mini world? Meaning for example USA cars?
Get out the sander.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Total posts: 10237
Last post: Apr 9, 2024 Member since:Mar 24, 1999
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Yes, and i've seen brake discs fail too.
What where they torqued to ?
What where they torqued to ?
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Total posts: 6349
Last post: Oct 22, 2023 Member since:Mar 9, 1999
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Ever seen this before? Two on the same day?
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Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
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Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
That is a technique I read somewhere before. Obviously it can work and I'm guessing doesn't weaken the nut. Does this challenge to hit the slot and hole happen any where besides the Mini world? Meaning for example USA cars?
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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Total posts: 4134
Last post: Oct 13, 2020 Member since:Oct 8, 2011
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I have always used 150 then the next hole. If the next hole seems to far I hit the nut face on the belt sander. Steve (CTR)
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Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
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Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
The maths isn't that difficult.
Draw a circle and put a line through it to represent the end of the CV with the hole through it. Draw a hexagon around that and draw three lines flat to flat to represent the pin holes in the nut.
Draw a second diagram next to it but with a cross through the CV to represent two holes through it.
Compare the angle of rotation required to line up the 'holes'.
On a two-hole CV in the worst case scenario (where the hole is just past where it needs to be) you have to tighten the nut far less to line up the holes than with the single-hole CV - which is already too blinkin' tight to start with !!
Draw a circle and put a line through it to represent the end of the CV with the hole through it. Draw a hexagon around that and draw three lines flat to flat to represent the pin holes in the nut.
Draw a second diagram next to it but with a cross through the CV to represent two holes through it.
Compare the angle of rotation required to line up the 'holes'.
On a two-hole CV in the worst case scenario (where the hole is just past where it needs to be) you have to tighten the nut far less to line up the holes than with the single-hole CV - which is already too blinkin' tight to start with !!
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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Total posts: 8382
Last post: Jan 13, 2022 Member since:Feb 7, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
The maths isn't that difficult.
Draw a circle and put a line through it to represent the end of the CV with the hole through it. Draw a hexagon around that and draw three lines flat to flat to represent the pin holes in the nut.
Draw a second diagram next to it but with a cross through the CV to represent two holes through it.
Compare the angle of rotation required to line up the 'holes'.
On a two-hole CV in the worst case scenario (where the hole is just past where it needs to be) you have to tighten the nut far less to line up the holes than with the single-hole CV - which is already too blinkin' tight to start with !!
Draw a circle and put a line through it to represent the end of the CV with the hole through it. Draw a hexagon around that and draw three lines flat to flat to represent the pin holes in the nut.
Draw a second diagram next to it but with a cross through the CV to represent two holes through it.
Compare the angle of rotation required to line up the 'holes'.
On a two-hole CV in the worst case scenario (where the hole is just past where it needs to be) you have to tighten the nut far less to line up the holes than with the single-hole CV - which is already too blinkin' tight to start with !!
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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Total posts: 10237
Last post: Apr 9, 2024 Member since:Mar 24, 1999
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Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
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The maths isn't that difficult.
Draw a circle and put a line through it to represent the end of the CV with the hole through it. Draw a hexagon around that and draw three lines flat to flat to represent the pin holes in the nut.
Draw a second diagram next to it but with a cross through the CV to represent two holes through it.
Compare the angle of rotation required to line up the 'holes'.
On a two-hole CV in the worst case scenario (where the hole is just past where it needs to be) you have to tighten the nut far less to line up the holes than with the single-hole CV - which is already too blinkin' tight to start with !!
Draw a circle and put a line through it to represent the end of the CV with the hole through it. Draw a hexagon around that and draw three lines flat to flat to represent the pin holes in the nut.
Draw a second diagram next to it but with a cross through the CV to represent two holes through it.
Compare the angle of rotation required to line up the 'holes'.
On a two-hole CV in the worst case scenario (where the hole is just past where it needs to be) you have to tighten the nut far less to line up the holes than with the single-hole CV - which is already too blinkin' tight to start with !!
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Total posts: 169
Last post: Sep 18, 2020 Member since:Jan 28, 2014
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I used the 150ftlb then line up the hole for my 8.4" brake install. Mostly because it was all I had. I had to use an 8ft fence pole as a breaker bar just to get the dang thing off the car! I was also using a 33mm (insert correct imperial socket size here) socket with a 3/4 to 1/2 inch drive adapter on a 1/2 inch breaker bar and torque wrench. Don't want to break the half inch breaker next time I need to remove the brakes. I don't have a need for anything 3/4 drive other than the axle nut so I'll hold off on buying larger equipment.
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Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
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Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by onetim
I went with 190 then pin hole. Part of the fun of the car is having to borrow the 250 ft/lb torque wrench from work to wrench on a mini. Got some strange looks.
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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I went with 190 then pin hole. Part of the fun of the car is having to borrow the 250 ft/lb torque wrench from work to wrench on a mini. Got some strange looks.
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Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
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Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
It is not going to go anywhere with the 150 lb single hole torque spec but you might get to 188 lb by the time you align a single hole cv nut up.
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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Total posts: 8382
Last post: Jan 13, 2022 Member since:Feb 7, 2006
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Cars in Garage: 0
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It is not going to go anywhere with the 150 lb single hole torque spec but you might get to 188 lb by the time you align a single hole cv nut up.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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|
Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
|
Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
The American car mechanic would think that 150 to 188 lbs is a lot of torque for wheel bearings but as you said there is a spacer in between the bearings to take the load.
Most older RWD American cars front bearings had no spacer you tightened up the bearings then backed them off a 1/4 turn or less to set them up.
Most older RWD American cars front bearings had no spacer you tightened up the bearings then backed them off a 1/4 turn or less to set them up.
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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Total posts: 8382
Last post: Jan 13, 2022 Member since:Feb 7, 2006
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Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
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The American car mechanic would think that 150 to 188 lbs is a lot of torque for wheel bearings but as you said there is a spacer in between the bearings to take the load.
Most older RWD American cars front bearings had no spacer you tightened up the bearings then backed them off a 1/4 turn or less to set them up.
Most older RWD American cars front bearings had no spacer you tightened up the bearings then backed them off a 1/4 turn or less to set them up.
If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.
Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.
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|
Total posts: 60
Last post: Aug 12, 2021 Member since:Sep 16, 2009
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Cars in Garage: 4
Photos: 91 WorkBench Posts: 13 |
Hi Alex, thanks for your reply.
I am intrigued about the math comment, not that I may understand the math principles very well. I assume going to the next slot is actually going above the 150 ft lbs and therefore something closer to the 188-200 fl lbs posted in Haynes.
Everyone I've spoken with, who isn't a Classic Mini owner, respond to the 188-200 ft lbs with "that a lot of torque", including one American car professional mechanic a a dealership here in town.
Likewise, your comment that the 188-200 fl lbs is too tight is also a comment that intrigues me, as I've seen posts elsewhere that suggest that the force applied isn't a factor because of the spacer between the bearings in the disc hub/cv unit.
But as you haven't seen an issue at the 150 fl lbs, I too didn't seem to see an issue on my application, althought my application didn't have a high amount of miles of use, and perhaps at many thousands of miles it may be an issue.
I'm courious what Classic Mini racers do/think.
And I'm courious why I find the differences of numbers and opinions seemingly at odds with each other!
Thanks again,
Russ
I am intrigued about the math comment, not that I may understand the math principles very well. I assume going to the next slot is actually going above the 150 ft lbs and therefore something closer to the 188-200 fl lbs posted in Haynes.
Everyone I've spoken with, who isn't a Classic Mini owner, respond to the 188-200 ft lbs with "that a lot of torque", including one American car professional mechanic a a dealership here in town.
Likewise, your comment that the 188-200 fl lbs is too tight is also a comment that intrigues me, as I've seen posts elsewhere that suggest that the force applied isn't a factor because of the spacer between the bearings in the disc hub/cv unit.
But as you haven't seen an issue at the 150 fl lbs, I too didn't seem to see an issue on my application, althought my application didn't have a high amount of miles of use, and perhaps at many thousands of miles it may be an issue.
I'm courious what Classic Mini racers do/think.
And I'm courious why I find the differences of numbers and opinions seemingly at odds with each other!
Thanks again,
Russ
Motoring or Motorin, Motoren, Motoryn, Motring? That is the question!
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Total posts: 10237
Last post: Apr 9, 2024 Member since:Mar 24, 1999
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150 lbft and on to the next hole as per the original type of CV - there are fundamental mathematical reasons for this.
I've never, ever gone to 190 lbft and next hole as it's simply too tight. Never had any problems either.
I've never, ever gone to 190 lbft and next hole as it's simply too tight. Never had any problems either.
Found 25 Messages
