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 Posted: Jan 24, 2023 05:37PM
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France was a big export market for LHD Minis.

I think Issigonis once remarked that the (Mini) Woody existed because of the preferences of Parisian housewives...

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Jan 24, 2023 03:28PM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommerlingli
It has Smiths-gauges. I cannot check the bootlid yet, it's still at the garage. I'll put that on my list to check when it's back, together with the date on wiper motor and boot handle. 
Boot LATCH (not the handle)....inside the boot.

I think Dan is correct.

  ~ 30 minutes in a Mini is more therapeutic than 3 sessions @ the shrink. ~

  Mike  Cool  NB, Canada   

 Posted: Jan 24, 2023 04:09AM
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It has Smiths-gauges. I cannot check the bootlid yet, it's still at the garage. I'll put that on my list to check when it's back, together with the date on wiper motor and boot handle. 

 Posted: Jan 24, 2023 03:09AM
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CA
I suspect it was made in the UK for export to a left-hand-drive country, which wold include Italy.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Jan 24, 2023 02:43AM
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CA

Does it have Veglia gauges? (or Smiths?)
Double skinned bootlid? (ie: when you open the boot/trunk you don't see the "inside" of the bootlid, but a panel covering all the internals.)
Headlight trim rings look Austin/Morris to my eyes. Inno's are FAT/thick.

It sure looks like it started life as a UK Mini and not a Innocenti, but regardless, it's a great looking car.

  ~ 30 minutes in a Mini is more therapeutic than 3 sessions @ the shrink. ~

  Mike  Cool  NB, Canada   

 Posted: Jan 24, 2023 12:48AM
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Thank you Ian for your interesting answer! I just remembered something I've read in the original owners booklet I have of the car... If I get the italian and the handwriting correct, it says "Year of first registration 1968 of foreign manufacture". This could be consistent with your assumption that the Mini was indeed built in the UK. So it was the tourist after all, he probably broke the car during the car chase after the gold robbery and then had to fix it with italian parts :-) What an interesting little Mini i've got: UK built, shipped to Italy, probably changed a lot over the time and now it's in Switzerland!

 

Somebody must have loved that car very much and whatever he changed, he did quite a good job. I adore my Mini and I'll definitely cherish it as it is! However, I will certainly have to replace some parts at some point in the future when they break, therefore my next task would be to find out, if the previous owners just changed some parts of the Morris-MKII-chassis and replaced them with italian parts that were available... or if they swapped the whole chassis with one built by Innocenti, maybe even a MKI? I don't know yet how I can out those things.

 Posted: Jan 23, 2023 03:08PM
 Edited:  Jan 23, 2023 03:13PM
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I don’t think that’s remotely possible.

CKD means just that “Completely. Knocked Down”. CKD kits were not cars in a box. The system shipped components (floors, door panels, front guards (wings), bonnets boots etc) in batches to a foreign factory where they were built up into complete cars. It was mainly done to avoid taxes that were imposed on imported vehicles. The local assembler didn’t have to buy complete cars but was able to incorporate locally manufactured components into the finished vehicle (ie trim, some mechanicals etc). Australian Mini production started out this was an ended up with over 80% of the complete car being manufactured in Oz. But we also had complete cars (made in UK) shipped to and sold in Oz. Some ordered by the company itself and some by private buyers.

This car has an “FE” number that’s means that, at least, the front end (firewall,inner and outer guards, windscreen surround etc) was assembled in the UK. It would not make sense to build this up then package it with a floor, sides etc to be welded on in another country.

If indeed the ID plates actually belong to this car - and there seems to evidence that they do - then there are numerous ways for it to arrive in Italy. Maybe a private buyer decided that wanted this particular model, maybe a tourist drove it out and found the gold wouldn’t fit in the boot so abandoned it :))

Over time the local Italian owner(s) probably replaced bits that were available locally (pre internet it was not that simple to just ring up a UK supplier and order parts...BT(tried to)DT). I have one letter from a well known supplier explaining that they had changed ownership and found my letter in the company records and asking if I wanted to proceed with an order I’d sent them about 2 years earlier.

I think you should accept the chassis plate as genuine, then decide whether you want build it as a replica of what once was, or celebrate its survival and accept the work of previous owners that has bought the car to you in its present state.....

Cheers, Ian

PS I should point out that the foreign arms of BMC used their own ID systems and (in every incidence I’ve seen) attached unique national chassis numbers....

 Posted: Jan 22, 2023 11:00PM
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I found out some more things over the weekend. I missed one letter in the chassis number... after the number 6 there is an "S" as well. Which would indicate that it is a Super De-Luxe. And it seems that I checked the wrong list for the serial number. Because it is a Morris I should have checked the Cowley-List, although it was built at Longbridge. Therefore my Mini must have been built in 1968, which would make more sense anyway. 
Therefore it must be a Morris Mini MKII 1000 Super De-Luxe 2-door saloon built in 1968 at Longbridge. Then exported as a CKD-kit to Italy where it was probably adapted by Innocenti for the italian market.

Hope I've researched that correct so far. I couldn't find out more about the engine and the commission number yet and wasn't able to check the date on other components so far.

 Posted: Jan 15, 2023 10:52PM
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Oh yes it is a Minimatik! And I'll definitely be very kind to it, changing oil regularly and so on :-) It'll have it's best life with me! I don't really care what it turns out to be in the end, if it is original or a little white "Frankenstein" or "Mr. Potato Head", I already love it anyway. But to get the right parts if something is damaged I'll have to know more. And I have to say it really is an interesting journey to dig a bit in it's history, together with the help of this forum. I've already learned so much!

The interior looks very fancy, yes. But unfortunately it is not very well made. The foam underneath is crumbling into pieces and all the fabric on the panels is just fitted over pieces of old cardboard, still with stamps and labels on it. They're wobbly and not fitted well. Other parts were cut out very inaccurately with scissors. Fortunately, all this can be easily replaced and furthermore my partner is an upholsterer for classic cars, so no need to worry there :-)

 

I'll definitely check the date stamps on the window wiper motor and the trunk handle as soon as I can. And if is has Veglia gauges and a double skinned bootlid. My Mini is at a garage at the moment undergoing a first inspection. 

 

It definitely has a lot of Innocenti. Comparing with the information in one book, my Mini has the typical opening rear windows, lever-pull door handles, a moustache, orange indicators on the front wings and white lenses under the headlamps, a three-gauge oval dial, bigger rectangular backlights, italian heater. It has nine horizontal bars on the grill, but I'll have to check if they are steel or aluminium. It has italian-sized number plates, I even managed to keep its original, old italian number plates with the original number it was registered in 1968!

I'm not sure yet about the wider back window. And the badges! If it really is an Innocenti, then it should have the oval innocenti badges. But on the bonnet is a Morris badge, on the steering wheel a Rover badge and nothing at all on the trunk :-/ Combined with the current uncertainty, what my truly Mini is, I have no clue what I should get. Is it a Morris or an Innocenti? Should I stick to the papers and let it be a "Morris Mini MKII 1000 Minimatic". Or if it turns out to have been changed into a MKI-chassis, then "MKI 1000 Minimatic"? Or all with Innocenti? 

 Posted: Jan 15, 2023 02:40PM
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Minithemark. I only see one master cylinder in the engine bay picture.

 Posted: Jan 15, 2023 10:17AM
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Beautiful Car, Isabelle! I'm unsure about the interpretation based on your research, but it doesn't matter. It has been lovingly made "Mr. PotatoHead" by someone who cared. I'll have to X2 what someone earlier said about lenses and Lighting. There is a slight chance that your signal assemblies (below front headlights) are the Inno style due to what appears to be the wider, different profile of chrome bezel. Certainly the "side-front" marker lights are characteristic of that same Inno style. Since the front headlights chrome rings suffer under normal use, they are often replaced over time with the standard UK Built Mini style ring. The lenses, especially the rear taillites were often made by italian manufacture, but the name escapes me now. Hopefully the Inno folk will come into the conversation to further I.D. Get an extremely bright light and read the Cast In manufacturer name in the Lens itself.

Your interior is fantastic, and it makes me think of the special edition late minis which were called Tartan Edition and Balmoral Edition or somesuch.

One other comment: It doesn't look like your car retains the automatic it left the factory with. ( Your "shifter" appears to be a Remote style for a standard 4 speed manual transmission. But, this is a good thing - for you to have a manual transmission ) If, by chance you have an automatic, be nice to it and also change your oil at 2,000 mile intervals.

Enjoy the mini, and your having achieved getting one that is so very nice. Best, MSH

All Together Now.... Everybody......
 Posted: Jan 15, 2023 09:57AM
 Edited:  Jan 15, 2023 09:58AM
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Are the gauges Veglia gauges?
What about the date stamps on the wiper motor and trunk handle?
The heater looks Italian to me.

 Posted: Jan 15, 2023 09:51AM
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One of the great mysteries of life.  On its face it appears to be a MK II - big taillights; external hinges. Super Deluxe - oval speedo- though Innocentis got them standard.  Not sure why you think the # indicates it started life in '64?  I show MK II kicking in 10/67 with #507001 for Morris.  Maybe you are looking at the Austin #'s mistakenly which started higher?  Also has the modified door handles (rounded a bit and with the chrome gumdrop to make them less lethal) which came in in late '65.   

I don't know Innocentis but my source book says  distinguishing features were Oval Innocenti badges; 9 bar chrome grill, fittings under front bumper for smaller Italian plate, xtra little round indicators of sides of front wings, rear light clusters incorporating reversing lights, and white not orange lenses on the lights under the headlamps.  You seem to check those boxes. 

As others have suggested check dates on wiper motor and trunk latch. 

I suggest you just enjoy it - it appears to be a gorgeous car. 

Kim
Morris Mini Minor  MK I -850 magic wand bitsa '63-'67
  

 Posted: Jan 15, 2023 07:18AM
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CA
It's a great looking car but I have a feeling it's not an Innocenti (or even assembled by Inno)

An Inno would have (I think) thicker/wider headlight rings.
I am still brewing about the years difference.
An Inno would also have a double skinned bootlid.
Open it up and show us a pic.

Those don't look like MKII tailights, but again, no expert on the European cars made for Italian market.

Most cars, including my own are a mish-mash of parts from various years.

Doesn't take away from the beauty of it for 99% of us.

Great looking Mini

  ~ 30 minutes in a Mini is more therapeutic than 3 sessions @ the shrink. ~

  Mike  Cool  NB, Canada   

 Posted: Jan 15, 2023 03:56AM
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WOW! A very nice car. Congratulations.

It certainly looks the part of a Mark II car to me.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Jan 14, 2023 11:54PM
 Edited:  Jan 15, 2023 06:35AM
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I was able to upload four pictures now (see first post). 

The strange thing is... When the chassis number has that "6" in it which would mean "MKII Morris", and the sequential build number refers to a car built in 1964... ?? Or maybe I made a mistake there. The last "A" means it's built in Longbridge. Do I take the numbers from Longbridge , or the ones from Cowley because its a Morris? The same number for Cowley would mean it's built in 1968. I looked those numbers up in the book "Factory-original Mini MKI & MKII" by James Taylor. 

What about the engine? As far as I can tell, it is still a 998cc enginge, as in the papers, so no change there so far. But I couldn't find out more informations about the numbers "143" and "2671". I suppose the last one is a serial number, but I could't find a list to find out when it was made.

 Posted: Jan 14, 2023 07:39PM
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Post some pictures. Mini owners like ve9aa should be able to help you.

 Posted: Jan 14, 2023 09:12AM
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CA
The FE124# is a body number.  Not much you can glean from this unless you compare it with other owners.  
A 4 year gap seems pretty suspect to me. 1 or even 2, MAYBE - but 4? (back when these were very popular cars?)

It's hints to a revin, but I don't know the Italian market, so I cannot say for sure.

I didn't know they made auto's in 1964 - but others have more knowledge than I do.

If you look at the boot latch and the wiper motor cover, they often have an obvious date stamp on them.

Good look - post a few pix if you can.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommerlingli

Dear forum experts

I'd be glad for some help :-) I'm the very proud new owner of a classic Mini, a lifelong dream of mine! It'll need a little bit of work and before looking for parts I'll need to find out more of course. After reading all the articles here and some books, I've got quite far but need some help confirming it and filling up the gaps. 

Chassis number: M - A2S6SL 549322 A
M = Morris, A = A Series engine, 2S = 2-door saloon, 6 = MKII Morris, L = left hand drive, 549322 = sequential number, built in 1964, A = Morris built at Longbridge.

FE1242970: no clue what that number tells.

Motor number: 99H 143'A - H2671: 
998cc ADO 15 general with automatic gearbox.
99 = 998cc enginge, H = transverse, 143 = ???, A = automatic gearbox, H = high compression, 2671 = serial number ???, year ???

Commission number 2-15S-25345A (or I5S?)
2 = ???, 15S / I5S = ???, 25345 = sequential number???, A = Longbridge

On the Italian registration paper it says it's a Mini Morris MKII Automatic 1000 from 1968. I suppose it was built in 1964 at Longbridge and then exported to Italy, assembled I suppose by Innocenti and then registered 1968. What makes it quite difficult: an English built Morris Mini from 1964 (MKI), adapted and assembled for and in Italy by Innocenti and sold as a MKII?

I’ll try and get the Heritage Certificate by the British Motor Museum, that they don’t mail abroad at the moment.

Thank you all very much for your help. Isabelle

  ~ 30 minutes in a Mini is more therapeutic than 3 sessions @ the shrink. ~

  Mike  Cool  NB, Canada   

 Posted: Jan 14, 2023 01:54AM
 Edited:  Jan 14, 2023 11:53PM
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Image Gallery

Dear forum experts

I'd be glad for some help :-) I'm the very proud new owner of a classic Mini, a lifelong dream of mine! It'll need a little bit of work and before looking for parts I'll need to find out more of course. After reading all the articles here and some books, I've got quite far but need some help confirming it and filling up the gaps. 

Chassis number: M - A2S6SL 549322 A
M = Morris, A = A Series engine, 2S = 2-door saloon, 6 = MKII Morris, L = left hand drive, 549322 = sequential number, built in 1964, A = Morris built at Longbridge.

FE1242970: no clue what that number tells.

Motor number: 99H 143'A - H2671: 
998cc ADO 15 general with automatic gearbox.
99 = 998cc enginge, H = transverse, 143 = ???, A = automatic gearbox, H = high compression, 2671 = serial number ???, year ???

Commission number 2-15S-25345A (or I5S?)
2 = ???, 15S / I5S = ???, 25345 = sequential number???, A = Longbridge

On the Italian registration paper it says it's a Mini Morris MKII Automatic 1000 from 1968. I suppose it was built in 1964 at Longbridge and then exported to Italy, assembled I suppose by Innocenti and then registered 1968. What makes it quite difficult: an English built Morris Mini from 1964 (MKI), adapted and assembled for and in Italy by Innocenti and sold as a MKII?

I’ll try and get the Heritage Certificate by the British Motor Museum, that they don’t mail abroad at the moment.

Thank you all very much for your help. Isabelle