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 Posted: Jul 23, 2014 05:57AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeToBuyClassicmini
Thanks for the follow up malsal. I'm not sure what you mean by "no inner fender shroud", but my Mini seems to be an "in-between" (being a '91 Mainstream Cooper)... Mine did have a flexible rubber "form" that was somewhat "triangular" (wider at the top than at the bottom) that surrounded the radiator, was held on by the same screws that fastened the rad to the one-piece metal shroud and extended from the rad out against the inner wing to ensure that the hot air exited the engine bay... So like I mention mine had the one-piece metal shroud; the plastic 11-fin fan; and the half inch spacer that puts the fan right next to the radiator (just enough clearance to slip a belt past if stuck on the side of the road with a broken one). I replaced the thermostat mid-winter, but put in a new top and a new bottom hose with the new pump this weekend (no bypass hose on my model). Oh, and thanks for the tip re: the belt loosening up over the break-in period!

Glad you got it sorted. Your model would not have a metal inner fender shroud it seems like yours has a flexible rubber that someone has added or may have come from the factory with.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Jul 22, 2014 06:20PM
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Thanks for the follow up malsal.

I'm not sure what you mean by "no inner fender shroud", but my Mini seems to be an "in-between" (being a '91 Mainstream Cooper)...

Mine did have a flexible rubber "form" that was somewhat "triangular" (wider at the top than at the bottom) that surrounded the radiator, was held on by the same screws that fastened the rad to the one-piece metal shroud and extended from the rad out against the inner wing to ensure that the hot air exited the engine bay...

So like I mention mine had the one-piece metal shroud; the plastic 11-fin fan; and the half inch spacer that puts the fan right next to the radiator (just enough clearance to slip a belt past if stuck on the side of the road with a broken one).

I replaced the thermostat mid-winter, but put in a new top and a new bottom hose with the new pump this weekend (no bypass hose on my model).

Oh, and thanks for the tip re: the belt loosening up over the break-in period!

 Posted: Jul 19, 2014 12:08PM
 Edited:  Jul 19, 2014 05:46PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeToBuyClassicmini
Thanks so much for the extra details Jeg. My pump finally arrived and I'll be attempting this today so I'd say your timing is perfect (even though YOUR shipper's timing was "Not so much..."!) I REALLY like your suggestion of getting the fan out of the way early in the process to provide both access to the bottom hose as well as provide more clearance for the radiator extraction. And I've got a bonnet sound pad that has been waiting for "gluing-in" for a long while so I think I'll be taking the bonnet off anyway, but ANY suggestion that provides more access is most welcome! The only thing I'm still not clear on is the belt tightness: I think I'm going to try the looser "1 inch altogether" first: front: pushed belt----1/2"----rest----1/2"----pushed belt :back and if that works well with no squealing, then I'll leave it. If it seems like I'm either not getting a good charge, or not enough coolant flow, or if the squeal comes back either on startup or under heavy electrical load, I'll go for the tighter "1/2 inch altogether": front: pushed belt----1/2"----pushed belt :back BTW: For anyone else doing this in the future, there's another great step-by-step post with pics that I found here: //www.myminiproject.co.uk/lucy/mini44.html Oh, and I cannot sign off without a special shout out to Don Racine, Ed D'Arata and especially Chuck Heleker for always being so incredibly generous with their time and expertise - they are absolutely terrific guys!

If your mini is a later model and has no inner fender shroud and a stock plastic fan you can pull the rad out with the one piece shroud and both hoses still connected. Replace the thermostat, top and bottom hoses and the by pass hose (if equipped) while you are at it. Adjusting the belt the way you described is fine, just remember they do break in and stretch a little so it will need re setting.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Jul 19, 2014 07:42AM
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Thanks so much for the extra details Jeg. My pump finally arrived and I'll be attempting this today so I'd say your timing is perfect (even though YOUR shipper's timing was "Not so much..."!)

I REALLY like your suggestion of getting the fan out of the way early in the process to provide both access to the bottom hose as well as provide more clearance for the radiator extraction. And I've got a bonnet sound pad that has been waiting for "gluing-in" for a long while so I think I'll be taking the bonnet off anyway, but ANY suggestion that provides more access is most welcome!

The only thing I'm still not clear on is the belt tightness:

I think I'm going to try the looser "1 inch altogether" first:

front: pushed belt----1/2"----rest----1/2"----pushed belt :back

and if that works well with no squealing, then I'll leave it.

If it seems like I'm either not getting a good charge, or not enough coolant flow, or if the squeal comes back either on startup or under heavy electrical load, I'll go for the tighter "1/2 inch altogether":

front: pushed belt----1/2"----pushed belt :back

BTW: For anyone else doing this in the future, there's another great step-by-step post with pics that I found here: //www.myminiproject.co.uk/lucy/mini44.html

Oh, and I cannot sign off without a special shout out to Don Racine, Ed D'Arata and especially Chuck Heleker for always being so incredibly generous with their time and expertise - they are absolutely terrific guys!

 Posted: Jul 16, 2014 04:11PM
 Edited:  Jul 16, 2014 04:27PM
jeg
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Funny thing, I also changed water pump (Tuesday) and the new one arrived in the mail today.  I couldn't wait for it to arrive, having ordered it express from MSC on Tuesday last week and they only shipped it Monday.  So, a brand new one for the spare-parts box and hope that the lightly used one is still good.  Pain in the neck job, this was...

Fortunately, I've got the one-piece shroud.

Here's how I do it:  Remove the grill, alternator/generator, top bracket and top hose, loosen bottom bolt, tip radiator towards inner wing, and turning one-flat at a time, remove the 7/16" screws holding the 4-blade fan to the water pump.  Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but I've got the (C-ARA4401) electric fan sitting between the radiator and inner wing, so have very limited access.  Lift off the fan and spacer.  Remove the lower radiator hose from the water pump and lift out the radiator as DRMINI described, tipping it forward and inwards - curling it out of the engine bay with lower hose attached.  Now the water pump is ready to come out.  Re-assembly is reverse of removal...

Oh, and good luck getting the fan screws to find the water pump 'blind' as they pass through the spacer and pulley.

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Jul 13, 2014 06:01AM
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Having thought I'd gotten rid of a squeal by installing a new belt about 100 miles ago (the old one from the Previous Owner was not only glazed, but cracked) I'm now staring at a puddle under my Mainstream Cooper and watching anything I pour into the radiator run out from under where the water pump shaft protrudes and meets the pulley, I realize the squeal was probably the water pump bearings on their way out and I know I'm about to start this replacement job myself too.

One questions that I'm hoping someone can clarify: What's the right tension for the belt?

I'm afraid I might have made it too tight when I set it at 13mm "deflection" when i pushed it forward in the long span between crank pulley and altenator and "marked" it on the ruler and then pushed backward and measured that "deflection" at 13mm.

I see above a "1/2 deflection on the lower front is what you need" noted.

Does that mean from rest, a half inch forward and then return to rest, and then a half inch backward AS WELL, making a total of ONE INCH when pushed forward and "marked" it on the ruler and then pushed backward and measured?

If that is the case then I should have been going for 26mm altogether and I might have made the belt too tight and killed the bearings and the seal.

Can anyone clarify?

Is it:

front: pushed belt----1/2"----rest----1/2"----pushed belt :back

or

front: pushed belt----1/2"----pushed belt :back

 Posted: Mar 10, 2014 10:06AM
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US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheleker

Where you get into big trouble is if the previous owner assembled the radiator onto the engine while the engine was out of the car and used longer fan bolts -- maybe because of a spacer use. Then the entire power unit with radiator attached was dropped into the car...and the car still has the radiator shroud on the inner wing panel (Mk I/II). The bolts can't be backed out of the fan because they are too long.

And the solution to this trouble is..........??

C'mon Chuck. You always seem to be able to come up with something....

 Posted: Mar 10, 2014 09:16AM
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US

Also, I like to put in new hose clamps that have a clean hex head so i can undo them with a socket on an extention especially at the bottom of the rad. 

 Posted: Mar 10, 2014 07:07AM
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US

I use the same process as DRMINI with the exception of not slotting the front lower screw of the top section of the radiator shroud. I remove the two vertical bolts that go into the same bracket holding the motor mount. The radiator comes out (and goes back in) with the lower shroud and lower hose attached.

Where you get into big trouble is if the previous owner assembled the radiator onto the engine while the engine was out of the car and used longer fan bolts -- maybe because of a spacer use. Then the entire power unit with radiator attached was dropped into the car...and the car still has the radiator shroud on the inner wing panel (Mk I/II). The bolts can't be backed out of the fan because they are too long.

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 07:19PM
 Edited:  Mar 10, 2014 05:39AM
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I did mine today. RAD out. That's the procedure.
Drain it from the bottom hose. Get a tub from home depot like you mix cement to catch the antifreeze. It WILL spill onto the subframe and that will get on the floor. I used sawdust to contain and mop it up.

Spray 2 right thermostadt housing/ rad top bracket bolts with nut breaker spray. It's called PB Blaster. It works very well. Spray it on and let it sit. To loosen nuts or bolts, tighten them a cinch first to break the interference, then loosen. Don't tighten them a lot, just a tiny bit of movement.

You HAVE to remove the top rad bracket that is attached to the thermostadt housing. These are the step. Take out the rad top bracket.

Also remove top hose from rad, loosen clamp on thermo housing and tip hose UP. out of the way.

Now you can tip the rad to the right a bit to get the top shroud  off. I think only 2 sheet metal type screws. The one at the back is a bitch. (I have a one piece shroud, so this bit is fuzzy to remember)

Also, loosen bolts on top of altenator. If you have a generator, look where it's mounted. Loosen it so the fan belt can be slack.  If you have an altenator, the right side of the alternator mounts through the most forward end of the water pump housing.  For alt, remove two top bolts. (water pump, and head)

Reach under alt, and locate 9/16 nut or bolt that tensions altenator. this should tighten against a sliding flat bracket. this is the tension bit for the alt.

Loosen it, manipulate the altenator to remove belt, and move altenator in lowest position while still on the tension bracket.

Bottom hose on rad connects to water pump, and is a 3 way hose if you have heat. A small vertical leg of the hose goes to the heater core inside the car.

Remove the hose from rad.  I believe you can leave the lower shroud in the car and work the rad out.

Once the rad is out, remove 4- 7/16" bolts from fan. They are about 1 1/8" long. remove fan. There may be a spacer behind behind the fan to align the belt pull with the crank pully. Don't lose it.

Now you can access the water pump.  4 - 1/2" bolts. Long and short, obvious which is which.

Make sure you have clean surfaces. remove all old gasket material. There may still be antifreeze weeping from a hole in the block;. use a turkey baster or paper towels to mop out the antifreeze. Paper towels will take a while.

wipe it with acetone. Get spray tack in a can to set the gasket on the water pump.

Get about 2 1/2" of 1/2 heater hose. This goes from the bottom of the head to the waterpump bypass.  The accordian hoses don't last and you don't want to do this job again.  Buy some new hose clamps for the 1/2" hose- and the rad hoses if you need them.

Can you go from here on your own?

 

 

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 06:12PM
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Thanks for the replies.  Is there enough room to remove the fan bolts with the radiator in position? I know I can get the upper shroud off, what is bothering me is the fan bolts.  With a 1/4 inch clearance between the radiator core and fan, could be no clearance.   I might be able to get...maybe with radiator loose, 1/2 inch of fan to radiator core clearance. I don't know if that is enough room for the bolts, might have to cut them and install shorter bolts?  I installed the radiator with the engine.  I know, should have replaced the pump.  I am planing for worst and hoping for best on this one.  I will order a pump and keep it on hand just in case.  Once again thanks, Mr.Vman Mini running and driving now in Arizona.

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 05:39PM
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I just did mine today

If its squeeling, make sure your belt is TIGHT enough.  1/2 deflection on the lower front is what you need.

Is the water pump leaking?

A screeching sound is more likely to be the altenator bearings.

You can take the altenator to a Autozone, and they'll bench test it for free with a printout of the specs.

If it's not the altenator, it could be the water pump.

The screeching should stop once the belt is slack. If not, it's not the alt or water pump.

 

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 05:26PM
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CA

Like Kevin said....don't be tempted to fit the cheap "quick change" bypass hose....or you might just be doing it all over again sooner than you'd like

 

"Everybody should own a MINI at some point, or you are incomplete as a human being" - James May

"WET COOPER", Partsguy1 (Terry Snell of Penticton BC ) - Could you send the money for the unpaid parts and court fees.
Ordered so by a Judge

 

 

 

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 05:13PM
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US

Might not even be the water pump. Could be a timing chain issue.... or, if your hearing is directionally challenged, the drop gears.

First thing I would do is loosen the belt and see what the water pump sounds like spinning it by hand.

BTW, welcome to Mini ownership. Hopefully, you have a copy of the Haynes Book of Lies.
For a while it seemed everything I wanted to work on the Book of Lies would say;
"First disconnect the battery. Then, refer to chapter 2 and remove the radiator....."

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 04:43PM
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It's not hard....
Undo and remove the top half of the shroud. Remove fan. Leave the bottom half attached to the radiator.
Remove bottom hose from water pump and disconnect heater hose if fitted.
Remove both bottom bracket screws from radiator shroud. If you can't get to them, undo the bracket off the engine mount instead.
Rotate radiator 90deg, top tank towards front of car. Lift radiator out.

When fitting the new pump I would use a piece of 1/2" heater hose on the bypass, as the concertina rubber hoses these days are poorly made.

I slot the 2 lower screw holes of the top shroud to the edge whilst it's out, makes it easier to refit next time by leaving those 2 screws sitting in the lower shroud.

Kevin G

1360 power- Morris 1300 auto block, S crank & rods, Russell Engineering RE282 sprint cam, over 125HP at crank, 86.6HP at the wheels @7000+.

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 01:21PM
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just be patient and tape off what you don't want scratched

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 01:06PM
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As Larry said, it's not easy with the 2-piece radiator shroud.  You will be cussing by the time you get it and the radiator out.  Hopefully Chuck Heleker will see your post and reply.  I seem to remember he has a method where if you follow the steps in order it is easier to remove the 2-piece shroud.

Doug L.
 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 11:32AM
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You have to remove the radiator. Its do-able but not easy.

The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. G.B.S. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Oscar Wilde

//www.cupcakecooper.ca/

 Posted: Mar 9, 2014 11:21AM
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The "63" Mini is driving, still be sorting but coming along.  Question, the water pump could be making death noises, not sure yet.  It is reasonably possible to replace the water pump, with the engine in the car?  The radiator duct is still in the car, two piece fan shroud, tropical fan, two pass Cooper radiator and crank damper.  There might be 1/4 inch clearance between the fan and radiator.  Maybe, 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch clearance between the radiator and fender duct.  How to get the fan bolts out if this is possible?  Try to remove the radiator?  Undo the engine mounts and jack the engine up on the radiator side?  Leave the fan on and remove the fan and pump as one unit?  Not sure where this is going yet.  Thanks in advance, Mini in Arizona.  Mr.Vman