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 Posted: Dec 20, 2014 07:34AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal

In that case i would guess there is either an assembly problem or a wear problem. Are all the return springs new ? You need to make sure everything is working and moving correctly. Take one drum off at a time and have someone depress the brake slowly until you see the shoes move, you may want to have two small tire irons or screwdrivers on hand to stop the wheel cylinders pushing the brakes too far. I would spend my time bleeding them first and press the pedal slowly on the rears, if no air is coming out of the bleed nipples bleed them at the next junction and so on all the way back to the Master cylinder you should find air somewhere if everything is assembled correctly. Most of the air in a brake system i have encountered is in the rears but it could also have a front problem. Did you ever try clamping off both of the rear hoses to see if it made any difference ? That would be a good place to start imo.

Front assembly is brand new (it was a pre built kit from 7Ent).  So it had new backing plates, shoes, springs, hoses (metal and rubber), and drums.

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 20, 2014 07:31AM
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In that case i would guess there is either an assembly problem or a wear problem. Are all the return springs new ? You need to make sure everything is working and moving correctly. Take one drum off at a time and have someone depress the brake slowly until you see the shoes move, you may want to have two small tire irons or screwdrivers on hand to stop the wheel cylinders pushing the brakes too far. I would spend my time bleeding them first and press the pedal slowly on the rears, if no air is coming out of the bleed nipples bleed them at the next junction and so on all the way back to the Master cylinder you should find air somewhere if everything is assembled correctly. Most of the air in a brake system i have encountered is in the rears but it could also have a front problem. Did you ever try clamping off both of the rear hoses to see if it made any difference ? That would be a good place to start imo.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 20, 2014 07:05AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal

Go back and check the adjustment to see if they are still correct. Other than that i would bleed the system again. I had one Mini i had to literally bleed every joint in the system from the front to the rear to get the air out, it also helps to have the rear of the car as high as possible when bleeding the rears. Remember lefty loosey righty tighty which applies to oil filters as well.

If they are still adjusted then its an air problem and i need to bleed.  I get that.  But what if they are out of adjustment?  

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 20, 2014 06:51AM
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Go back and check the adjustment to see if they are still correct. Other than that i would bleed the system again. I had one Mini i had to literally bleed every joint in the system from the front to the rear to get the air out, it also helps to have the rear of the car as high as possible when bleeding the rears. Remember lefty loosey righty tighty which applies to oil filters as well.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 20, 2014 06:42AM
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Alright, third time adjusting the from brakes.  I tightened each one in the direction of wheel spin until the wheel locks and then back it off a smudge.  Then repeat for all 4 adjusters in the front.  Got in the car.

 

1. Pump 1: to the floor

2. Pump 2: Hard and high!

3. Pump 3 - 6: still good, just not as high

4. Pump X: back to needing a quick double pump to get pressure.

 

WTF?!

 

PS

I also noticed that my oil filter was leaking just bit, so I hand tightened...the WRONG WAY.  Ended up dumping about 1/4 qt of oil on my driveway.  So that was fun to clean up Yell

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 16, 2014 06:30AM
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It is easily done especially on the right side, you naturally figure lefty loosey righty tighty which does not apply in this case.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 16, 2014 05:56AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehinger

For the rears, both adjusters are clockwise to tighten. No difference side to side. The fronts should be tirned in thedirection of tire rotation.

I'm betting i adjusted the fronts in the wrong directly leading them to go out of spec once pressure was applied.  I'll retest on friday.

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 14, 2014 10:52AM
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US

For the rears, both adjusters are clockwise to tighten. No difference side to side. The fronts should be tirned in thedirection of tire rotation.

 Posted: Dec 13, 2014 09:14PM
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Back off both of the adjusters on one wheel and choose one to adjust turning it in the same direction as the wheel travels when going forward spinning it until it binds then back off slightly, minor rubbing is ok all drum brakes have high spots it seems then adjust the other one on the same wheel the same way. Repeat the process for the other side. So looking from the rear of the car the right side will be adjusted counter clockwise and the left side will be adjusted clockwise.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 13, 2014 12:37PM
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The rear ones did not need adjustment a second time.  The front brakes adjust using a small peg offset on a circular disc for adjustment.  I guess the question i have is...

What is the proper way to adjust?  I adjust the rear front shoe by turning in the direction of forward wheel travel until the wheel locks, and then back it off just a bit.  Adjust the front shoe the same way. then repear for the right/passenger side.

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 12, 2014 04:32PM
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US

I also ran into a situation while helping a friend with his brakes where he couldn't get the rear brakes adjusted. It turned out the that wedgies in the rear brake were too short. I don't know where these came from (maybe front adjuster wedgies) but we replace them with the proper ones and all was well.

 Posted: Dec 12, 2014 03:00PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinace2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinace2000

What's the best way to isolate the front from the rear? I'll try bleeding again on Friday. 

Just clamp off the rubber hoses on the rear trailing arms. If you don't have the correct tool use vise grips with some fuel hose or similar around the jaws to prevent damaging the brake hose, remove the clamps one at a time to isolate the problem to one side. One thing i have found that helps when bleeding a stubborn air pocket out of a system is to get the rear of the car as high as possible.

I decided to see about re-adjust the brakes once more and i noticed that the fronts needed a decent mount of adjusting. More than 1/2 a rotation on BOTH adjustors.  After adjusting pedal was firm and high.  I go for a drive and again after every braking the pedal gets a bit lower.  So this leads me to believe that:

A. I am adjusting my wheel incoorrectly in the front

B. They are coming out of adjustment very quickly

C. A&B 

Thoughts? (besides buying front disc brakes!)

Based on those comments i would pull the drums and turn the adjusters to make sure they are adjusting the shoes correctly making sure you are turning them the correct way.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 12, 2014 01:14PM
Total posts: 440
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Member since:Sep 24, 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinace2000

What's the best way to isolate the front from the rear? I'll try bleeding again on Friday. 

Just clamp off the rubber hoses on the rear trailing arms. If you don't have the correct tool use vise grips with some fuel hose or similar around the jaws to prevent damaging the brake hose, remove the clamps one at a time to isolate the problem to one side. One thing i have found that helps when bleeding a stubborn air pocket out of a system is to get the rear of the car as high as possible.

I decided to see about re-adjust the brakes once more and i noticed that the fronts needed a decent mount of adjusting. More than 1/2 a rotation on BOTH adjustors.  After adjusting pedal was firm and high.  I go for a drive and again after every braking the pedal gets a bit lower.  So this leads me to believe that:

A. I am adjusting my wheel incoorrectly in the front

B. They are coming out of adjustment very quickly

C. A&B 

Thoughts? (besides buying front disc brakes!)

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 9, 2014 05:44AM
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Gotchya, i'll give that a shot when i get home on friday.

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 9, 2014 05:36AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinace2000

What's the best way to isolate the front from the rear? I'll try bleeding again on Friday. 

Just clamp off the rubber hoses on the rear trailing arms. If you don't have the correct tool use vise grips with some fuel hose or similar around the jaws to prevent damaging the brake hose, remove the clamps one at a time to isolate the problem to one side. One thing i have found that helps when bleeding a stubborn air pocket out of a system is to get the rear of the car as high as possible.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 8, 2014 10:15PM
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US

The rubber hoses from the subframe to the trailing arm can go bad and cause problems

 Posted: Dec 8, 2014 08:39PM
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What's the best way to isolate the front from the rear? I'll try bleeding again on Friday. 

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 8, 2014 02:04PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinace2000

Still a problem.

Pulled out of the drive way and for the first 3 or 4 slow downs ( about 1/2-1 mile of driving) and the pedal goes back to the floor.  Two quick pumps of the pedal gives me good pedal feel and braking power.

The only thing that haven't been replaced in teh system are

  1. Prop Valve
  2. Mechanical linkage from pedal to master cylinder
  3. Medal brake lines
  4. rear shoes & springs.

I'm going to try to adjust the shoes once more, but whats next?

My guess would be you still have an air pocket in the system somewhere which i usually find in the rears. I would bleed it at every junction from the front to rear for starters. You could also clamp off the rears and drive it around the block to isolate the problem.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 8, 2014 12:37PM
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Still a problem.

Pulled out of the drive way and for the first 3 or 4 slow downs ( about 1/2-1 mile of driving) and the pedal goes back to the floor.  Two quick pumps of the pedal gives me good pedal feel and braking power.

The only thing that haven't been replaced in teh system are

  1. Prop Valve
  2. Mechanical linkage from pedal to master cylinder
  3. Medal brake lines
  4. rear shoes & springs.

I'm going to try to adjust the shoes once more, but whats next?

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

 Posted: Dec 6, 2014 12:09PM
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Nearly done!

Got the car off of the jack stands which was exciting since my POS craftsman floor jack was only lifting about 70% and not going high enough to take the weight off the fron jacks.  Six months old, so I went back to sears to swap it out.

Car is back on its own 4 tires and the pedal feels AMAZING.  I haven't driven the car yet since it is raining cats and dogs and my wiper motor does work.  Guess what the next project is!

Thanks EVERYONE for the help.

To recap: Besides the parts that needed replacing the key to the pdeal feel was  good bleeding (car and self) and ensuring proper adjustment of the shoes. My problem was the rear drums were too far worn to get a good adjustment on them.  Once that was done the rest was "easy".

'73 Innocenti Mini (non-export)

Morristown, NJ

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