I don't think I ever saw a sport pack without paint work done. They were painted horribly from the factory and many needed dealer participation in the final product.

When you sell cars the whole deal hinges on what you pay for it. You can't make a badly bought car profitable. I knew whether I was going to make money the minute I bought a car. And believe me for the 250-500 quid I made the whole thing was not worth it unless I valued the process. Which I did.

Unless a car is rare, desirable or bought very well your not going to make real money if you put a good paint job on it or find a rich purchaser that likes to overpay

Peter

When I had my Moke done, I found a guy that was sympathetic to the way a Moke was built.... So, in the new metal installed, he replicated the spot welds and left the "goober welds" for the hood brackets as is. The only problem I could find with his work is that BMC never put down paint as nice as he did..... Hell, Minis 'n Mokes were lucky to get all the surfaces painted at the factory. Much less nice, smooth 'n shiney with no runs drips or errors.....
From some of the figures being bounced around on this thread, I think I got a bargain.

I followed a process similar to this for a non-mini (granted, mine was for 24 hours of lemons).

//www.rickwrench.com/index79master.htm?//www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

I'm not a pro painter or anything, but my understanding is that the labor can be broken down into a few decisions:

* Fully strip the car, or just mask off the glass/chrome/etc. This can make a huge difference in labor needed. The cheap spray at the shop will obviously just mask things off, and spray what can get hit. You might have a difference of paint in the door sills or in the engine area, etc. If you're spraying the same/similar color, then it may not be a big deal.

* Fully strip the paint to metal and re-primer it, or respray. Sanding is a fair bit of work. A shop probably has machines to help a bit, but it's still a long process. If your base coat is in decent condition (not flaking or bubbling off), you may be able to get away with just a respray.

When people say labor rates for the paint job at 65 hours, I presume they're assuming you're going to fully strip the car to, or close to a bare shell, and bare metal, then paint the whole thing. That may be overkill for people who just want a driver that looks nice. Also, you may be able to cut some costs by taking off the chrome, bumpers, whatever yourself...

Our results from the $50 paint job (was more like $100 by the time we had to buy brushes, etc):

//lemons.zerobelow.org/galleries/?album=all&gallery=14

And it's held up pretty well being stored out in the open for the past 6 months. We did lose a small bit of paint in a few collisions, though.

 

Rich man's game???  Certainly not from the painter's point of view.  When quality paint costs (in the neighborhood of) $1000 just for the main colour and clear, factor in the other elements...primer, sealer, sandpaper, tape, masking paper (real painter's stuff not old newspaper), wear and tear on equipment, shop rent, then labour, then you will soon realize a quality job ain't cheap and the painter ain't getting rich either.  And I do hate to disagree with you Big Guy, but all the flat horizontal panels and square edges make a Moke harder to paint than a sedan...well, if you want it to lay correctly without runs or overspray.  Sure, Earl Schieb can paint any car for $249, but for a few bucks more I can do the same (with better results) and I'll wash it first and use a new roller head!  LOL!  In the end, you get what you pay for.  Obviously I think Nick's prices are reasonable for the quality of work he does or my Moke wouldn't be in his que, awaiting his restoration skills. 

O K, then at a low end shop-

that would be, hmmm, carry the 2, add a 5, = $5,525.00 U S Dollars

Plus of course prep work and supplies on top-

Having a mini painted is now a "RICH MANS" game-

Just had my moke painted "Fire Engine " RED to-day, may not look as good as a $85.00 hour job but you always have some lee way when doing a moke-

BIG AL-

Shop rates out here range from $85 an hour to as much as $115+ at some specility shops.  

So, Nick, 65 hours ???, and what would be the average going rate for a painter out there ????

BIG AL-

Dan if you have any questions and want to talk on the phone about the minitec conversion shoot me an email and I will give you my number. 

As far as for labor cost my thatcham book states 65 hours to do a color change on a mini with no metal work, or damage repair.

I'm Dan in Oklahoma, Nick is in Cali. I know PPG makes a good product, as do others. Matter of taste and preference. You could debate paint vs paint all day, but like has been said before its all just paint. You certainly don't want a $300 maco paint job that peels off the car a month later, but you also don't have to fork out 3k in supplies either to have a killer paint job that will last years and years. You have options. I've sprayed many different brands of paint (cars and planes) and some I like better than others. I got into Dupont because a local friends dad had a body shop and thats what they sprayed. I've had great results with color matching and the quality being top notch when I'm done. I've heard the nason line doesn't provide the same color matching results but is still good quality. I've used nason clear a good bit and no complaints there. I'll be trying HOK for the first time on my pickup shell and have a buddies mini that may get a respray using HOK as well. Fun to try something new once in awhile.

For a full top to bottom paint job, especially color changes, its hard to justify doing it for less than the 3-5k range from a labor stand point. Back when I was hunting minis to flip I targeted cars that needed some minor rust repair, maybe a panel or two, but nothing crazy, and a fresh coat of paint. The car needed to be 5k plus or minus 500. That usually meant it had a 998. Much less and the car was probably going to be a money pit due to condition, and paying much more the car was probably too nice for what I was trying to do. A quart of good paint and two quarts of clear gives you a respray, a little bit of primer for various repair areas, and maybe a pint sprayable for a roof and stripe job. Clean up the interior, replace a few items (afterall minis aren't really that pricey) and ship over a nice set of alloys with tires mounted, and you have yourself one hell of a nice daily driver or weekend toy for 8k. It put a small amount of cash in my pocket to enjoy my hobby and someone got a nice car and deal. I can't make a living flipping cars like that though and body work is hard labor, which is probably why I do it on the side as a hobby. Which reminds me, I have a shell in the shop and a minitec subframe to go play with...

"I can't load a gun to paint even a small car as a mini for less than 3 to 5k."-

Correct-!!!! so, if a nice pristine mini is selling for $10K and it has a $3K paint job and say, $2K in shipping taxes etc, then the seller is  left with $5k in his pocket, take off his original purchase price, up- grades etc and he loses money on the sale-

Only a fool would continue in this line of work,unless he was independently wealthy-

Billy Cox name comes to mind (LOL)-

BIG AL

Hey Nick

You can't beat PPG systemsDBC Base Concept Clear all very forgiving.

PPG Global systems are even better but don't lend themselves if a problem would require a quick repair.

I'm old school and still love my Mattson lp-88's they can be a hassle but the get the product on the car and very little waste in ambeiant overspray.

Next a top of the line SATA gravity with 3M cup liners are the trick.

I can't load a gun to paint even a small car as a mini for less than 3 to 5k.

The prep work is the all important , Sad but true painters make all the money and the poor guy that really is the hero is the bodyman.

The cost even for a jobber simply went along with gasoline prices.

 

eMail sent.

Thanks for the explaination Benny. Do I understand that TCP actually has a lacquer? I assume it must not be very good. I am sure it is nothing like the lacquer from the 80's that lasted so long I am sure. I have a 65 Pontiac I painted with lacquer in the 80's and it still looks good. I feel for you guys in California. Tennessee still allows somewhat decent products.

Nj, please send me this info as well....unless you sent it to me previously.  Looking for reputable shop in ATL and one who isnot slammed for taking on new project.  Thanks.

TCP is a paint manufacturer.  They started in SoCal under the name Tri-City Paints, but decided to expand their business through signifinfant mail ordering, so they changed it to TCP Global.   Since they are head quartered in SoCal, they use VOC compliant resins, and so they are the only place I know of that can still supply acrylic lacquer, acrylic enamel, and urethane enamel in this part of the country.  

DCC is the single-stage urethane enamel that PPG have offered for years. It's generally considered to be very durable, covers well, light weight (great for planes), and can be buffed to whatever level of shine you want.  As I mentioned, because I live in California, I would now have to jump through hoops to get it, so instead, I'm left with a watered-down crap that requires twice as much material to get coverage, and will probably need to be redone twice as often.....well thought-out environmental protection there, huh?

DCB is PPGs base coat/clear coat option that falls into the same family as DCC. 

eMail sent.

What does DCc, DCB, TCP mean?

I sale paint for a living these days. I used to paint cars for a living too (30+ years). The cost of doing a paint only job can varie from one shop to another, much the way a dentist can be with a mouth full of perfectly good teeth.

The brand of paint, low cost types will not last as long as the higher priced European types. Getting what you pay for. That's it, how long do you plan to keep the car?

What's the purpose of the car, daily driver, show circuits, race track, these are things that must be considered.

Then you have the shops that will see you thru the challenge. Are they hungry, loaded up with insurance work, fly by night, real pillars of the community? There's so much to research and understand before you move forward .

As for brands of paint, everybody has there personal choice for any number of reasons. As long as you understand what your going to do with your Mini,then paint selection should be pretty easy.

Like those who responded before me, I have my favorite line of paint, but what I like dosen't matter. In a nut shell, paint is paint, the cost between the high end brands is not that great, 2-3% points at best. It's all about what your applying that paint to. If the undercoats and bodywork are lacking at all, the most expensive paint, and the coolest colors, aren't going to make it any better.

Hope this didn't add to your confusion.

I have my own mixing bank, just order toners through my rep and mix it myself. I have tried the TCP stuff but it does not build like DCC for a hard cut and buff

NJ, curious where you had your paint done. I am contemplating paint this winter and would appreciate a recommendation on an Atl shop if you were pleased with what you got. Thanks!

Matt