Wow, sounds like Tavis is back. Gasoline is not big business, you're right, batteries are the problem that will bring communism to the world. The secret for our world is stop having children. Back on topic: it's cheaper to buy an electric car than to build one now. A guy I know, is a bi-motorhead (does engines and motors) converted his homebuilt electric/lead acid truck to lithium ($15k) and is happy with the results. He is even happier he bought a highway legal Ford City Car for less than his next conversion. I used to be all hot on an electric car, I'll wait until I can add a bigger battery for my Prius or afford a Tesla S. IMHO Mini's are for fun and need an engine a manual trans 

Jolt,

I'm not meaning to come back at cha again, but as far as, "but it is much better than it was 10 years ago", I completely disagree. Big business has only managed to mask more successfully the 15% to 20% in unclaimed waste by using crafty environmental "green" propaganda, (if they say 15% to 20%, you know it's at least 30% to 40% waste!) I'm sure the State/County Government Safety Agencies are making alot of money too as Big Companies pay them in order to continue dumping waste as long as they stay in the allowed 'threshold'. Considering too, (as Air2air brought out), anything considered "Green" can do no wrong. It is a trend which will continue to grow at an alarming rate. More "Green" means more electric vehicles, etc, means more batteries. There are alot more electric vehicles now then there were 10 years ago, so there's going to be more waste from batteries. Batteries are Big Business. As long as they can't be 100% reclaimed, there is a problem. Let's ask to see the dumping sites for the wastes that are leftover from a battery reclaim. I'm sure we all would cringe to see the amount being dumped. Big Business keeps that quiet though, as long as the money keeps rolling in.                  Mini Estate

Doing a conversion is not as easy as it sounds, and not cheap if you want the range. Battery Mangement and proper charging require the right BMS systems and are not inexpensive. To do the conversion with any range and proper management you are looking at $15K+ on top of the car itself and any upgrades to it. The mechanics of the installation are not too complex for anyone with welding and bodywork skills,  and some electical understanding, and there is a steep learning curve on controller setup and BMS... There are universal kits out there already, which with modifications will work on most small cars.. lots of decisions though on which motor type, which controller, what batteries etc.. all with different considerations on cost.  You can do a sub $5K conversion using old motors out of forklifts, no BMS system and lead acid batteries, but you get what you pay for.. something with limited range, short battery life, and you are on your own making sure you get the right controller match to the motor and the programming right..  my 2 cents!

We would all agree that the amount of environmental greenwashing these days blurs these decisions.

As a professional marketer, Green is not just the unstoppable marketing technique of choice; it's a highly successful industry with the top PR and ad agencies behind it. Green is never wrong - and if you question it, you're a sinner.  Green is always good and Man is always bad.  So write a check please.  

Yet, we old guys remember how bad things in the environment were 30-40 years ago compared to how nice they are now. 

Anyway, I thought we were most likely to end up using Li-Po instead of Lead Acid...??

i agree that not everything is reused on a battery. our supplier is able to reclaim about 80-90% of most batteries. it's not 100% green but it is much better than it was 10 years ago.

Joltfreak,

Quote, "we take the old batteries back to our battery supplier to be taken apart, recycled and remanufactured". Have you ever actually watched in person your battery supplier take a battery apart, then recycle and remanufacture it??? I seriously doubt that it is a such a clean and Planet friendly process. Businesses love to throw the 'recycle' and 'remanufactured' words around to make them look like heroes. How many rechroming Shops are still in business as a result of the chemicals that are used and have to be disposed of. I know of one rechrome Shop left in Portland, Oregon out of the many that there used to be, and I'm not even sure they are still there? Anyway, nothing personal Jolt, but one business that benefits another always seems to give praise. I worked at one of the largest Paper Mills in the World for (25) years who prided themselves on environmental advancements that according to the local newspaper were truly benefiting the community and all the families therein and the planet Earth itself. New hires were required to sit through the environmental propaganda, while the Employer dumped things in the River regularly and had no problem whatsoever paying the huge fines that the County imposed!!! Their profits far exceeded all fines. Funny how we were all told that all of the spills from the Millsite that ended up in the river were supposedly 'accidents!' Sorry, but I worked there too long. I knew better. So what toxic chemicals are present in a forklift battery? Ever wonder? Here's at least a partial list >>> lead, lead oxide, lead sulfate, lead compounds, copper, sulfuric acid. Add the potential of highly volatile hydrogen gas, and the corrosive chemicals within, you better believe it has it's very own Hazmat listing! There is a 'threshold' that has to be met when it comes to the waste produced and discarded from these batteries. Another very grey area to be sure. It's not all magically recycled or remanufactured or repurposed.              Mini Estate

                                                                                    

I work in the lift truck industry. When our customers replace their batteries for their trucks, we take the old batteries back to our battery supplier to be taken apart, recycled and remanufactuered. 

The real trick item in the lift truck industry is the hydrogen fuel cell that replaces the battery and provide electrical power to the lift truck. (or electric motor in a mini!!)

//www.raymondcorp.com/fuel-cell

 

Is there another side of the coin with electric when it comes to the environment? What is the impact of waste or pollution when producing or disposing of the batteries, compared to the carbon footprint left by fossil fuels? (here we go!) I used to drive electric powered forklifts in enclosed warehouses for years. The batteries were HUGE, and they didn't last indefinitely. When they got older and started to fail, the smell of sulfur was so strong from charging them that it would literally make the driver ill! Sometimes it took years, but eventually the batteries would start to split and leak. These batteries would mysteriously be taken off the premesis, and replaced with brand new. Did they become landfill? Who knows. Management eventually replaced all the electric forklifts with new gas powered lifts. Much more reliable than the ailing fleet of electric models. Going electric seemed like a novel idea in the beginning, but in the end, the gas units prevailed. The gas was more responsive and quicker as well in this case, (being quicker working in the Shipping Dept. was a neccessity, not an option!) So think about it, all the nasty chemicals from a worn out splitting leaky battery, (they don't last forever and they do have an impact on the ecology in the end). Is it really a cleaner source of energy? Those batteries in the forklifts I drove were about 4ft across by 3ft deep.                            Mini Estate

Again, reading all this shows that a straightforward kit would likely sell to many classic owners.  I would have probably done electric if I didn't need it for my daily driver.

• It can't be any more work than a vtec, and I think interest would exceed vtecs.  
• We all know an electric package could be the fastest setup of all. 
• Since electric is hot now, upgrade paths and support are there to ensure it would work out as a longterm investment and be a real working vehicle.
• Compared to the cost of a new power unit, there's plenty of room for a kit to make money.

 Whoever this guy is, he seems to know his stuff too:

Changing tire diameter on a CVT car just makes the software chose a different ratio.  The tire construction has to be of low rolling resistant type to work right, and the lighter the wheel/tire combo the better.  The early Insight uses a special tire made just for the one car,  and any other tire reduces mileage about 3 or 4 mpg.  The early Insights are all aluminum and fiberglass (aluminum bulkheads, subframes, interior)and were produced/sold at a loss as a test bed for the Honda hybrid system.  The cars weren't very popular as they were two seaters.  Only a bit over 15,000 total sold during the 8 year run.  The jewel in the car is the ICE as it incorporated every gas mileage trick Honda could come up with.  The offset crank bore/cylinder bore trick should be in all motors, along with the indexed spark plugs and the lean burn system with NOX cat.

Thanks for the update olddad. I was talking to a first generation Insight owner and asked why the Prius's seem so much popular than the newer Insight. He told me when the re designed the new Insight the weight was around nearly 800 lbs more 2600 lbs i believe and as such they are not as efficient. My Son changed the wheels on his car from the stock 16's to 20's and lost 3 mpg (and promptly changed them back) and we now have Ford now making an aluminum bodied F150 to save weight which is a good start when trying to get the most MPG, not that an F150 will ever get great fuel mileage.

Malsal   that is my project and is still being built.

 

I wanted to keep the '60 MiniMinor shell original, but in the end it had to be lengthened about 2 1/2 inches.  The Insight 3cyl has the exhaust at the rear and the intake at the front.  Even pushing the axles back to a dangerously big angle the intake runners and intake snoot still wanted to occupy the same area as the grill.  It won't be as noticeable as the 4" body stretches but it will be there. The long snoot runs across the engine in front and is a tuned length for gas efficiency betwee 1200 and 1500 rpm, just the sweet spot that gets the best mileage.  At least I can still use the OEW painted grill.  Also will have the 10x3.5 wheels with the 59/60 square hole wheel covers.

If I were to start over I would probably try to use just the ICE and forget about the hybrid battery stuff.  Best mileage with all these hybrids is when driving without any electric use.  Part of learning how to drive these things is to never push the right foot down far enough to use the electric boost unless it is absolutely unavoidable.  The vehicle weight without the electric hybrid equipment on board would be around 1200 lbs (650 lbs lighter than the Insight), so the loss of the torque wouldn't hurt too much.  The trick would be to install some kind of alternator since the hybrid electric motor has this function, and to make sure the lean burn feature of the 5 speed model still functions. Slip in a 9.5 gal. tank and the one tank highway range would be about 1000 miles.

Performance expectations with the full hybrid system installed is still well over 100 mpg/hwy with better than MK1 Cooper S power.  Car is still at MiniTec, so the project has been very drawn out. Now that I have surendered to the fact of the front clip stretch it should go faster. Upon completion there, I think it will go to New York to an Insight guru to see if the MIMA system can be installed.  This system allows the driver to control when and how much electricity is used and re-generated.  On Insights this increases gas mileage 15% on average with experienced drivers.  I can currently get over 90 mpg with my stock Insight on a hot summer day without slipstreaming, so I think I'm ready.

 

I was contracted to build two cars last year for a silicone valley Co. got as far as buying two cars and cutting metal when they put the whole thing on hold I'm hoping it will get back on track this year................

1973 Dave Lang made this electric Mini and we actually drove it at MME1981. Last I heard it belonged to Ultramar oil company in Montreal.

It was way ahead of its time. The only draw back was the weight of the batteries.

Deb

When I only spend $10 a week on gas going to work and back, why bother with an electric mini!!!

I know who has this project. And it's up and running. What do I win for giving you this information? Do I get one of those T7 heaters I've been desperate to get?

 

His name is Mike Laba. He's from New Zealand. His email is [email protected]

Here's where he keeps his batteries:

 

And he charges it with a solar panel in the back window.

Here's all the details you might want about the car

 

 

Then there's this guy in Japan who seems to be doing them for customers.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUHdmT2B28o

 

Here's the mini nearly completed and on a test run on the highway.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLNO3qKia0Y

 

Here he is delivering it to the owner after its final registration

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=auDO06khAAg

 

 

 No sound, but still interesting >>>  //www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjJQefmVOxA

There was a guy a couple of years ago here on the board that was going to convert an early Mini Estate (may have been a woody) with the driveline from an early Honda Insight. 

Very cool read!!!!!

Now that would be a new twist! I have a golf cart rear end and the motor and bits left over from our soap-box derby car of a couple of years ago. I'll donate if anyone wants to try it!! I'm thinking too heavy to keep engine in front too! I think our goal here is to find an electric Mini (or project) that we can bring to our 40th anniversary open house on May 31st. One powered by anti-matter would be OK too....