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 Posted: May 22, 2018 02:58PM
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CA
I'm pleased and relieved to report that all four connections to the rear hoses loosened without injury to me or any parts. I have placed an order for standard hoses (they will probably outlast me), replacement bleeder for the right front caliper and a new set of rubber pedal pads... they'll certainly make it stop better!
Until the parts arrive, there are yard chores and the boat needs spring cleaning, waxing and polishing for the upcoming sailing season.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 21, 2018 08:17AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dklawson
Good point Malcolm.  

When I got my car as a project the rear hoses had collapsed inside.  They were working like check valves.  You'd come to a stop and the rears would stay "locked" when you went to move again.

FWIW, the braided hoses cost a bit more than stock rubber ones but have been good investments for me.
I like the braided hoses but the only negative i have come up with is the inability to clamp them off when working on the brake system.

Glad you are getting it sorted Dan i have run into collapsed hoses (and broken nipples for that matter) a number of times.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: May 21, 2018 04:42AM
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Good one, Mark!

Kinda extra funny considering I had a mastectomy (took away one "fitting") and radiation which took away most of the hair on that side.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 20, 2018 03:33PM
 Edited:  May 20, 2018 03:34PM
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URL: [img]https://s5.postimg.cc/uzrlzxxzb/Dripping.jpg[/img]

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S
 Posted: May 20, 2018 02:00PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Check the rear flex hoses Dan they collapse internally and if they are blocked just replace all four as the rest if original are not far behind needing replacement.
You called it!
This afternoon I was able to disconnect the long rear line from the limiter valve and get gravity and pedal flow through it.
Next step was to disconnect one of the pipes at the T-fitting at the rear subframe. All three pipes must have been tightened by the same 600 lb gorilla, but one finally gave in and opened up. Good gravity and pedal flow to this point. Even with the joint opened up I was unable to get any flow from either rear adjuster.
Time for new flex hoses.
Side note: brake fluid will attack epoxy floor paint.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 20, 2018 09:11AM
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Some progress to report, and a small setback.
So far, I've flushed and bled the front system. Both front bleeders opened with little wrench effort and flowed freely, including under gravity alone. I will probably re-flush one I've got the rears flowing. Since the front circuit is short, I decided to try bleeding it first - if it bled OK, I didn't need to crack its joints individually.

On the right-side front caliper, I had trouble keeping a wring wrench firmly seated on the bleeder but it opened OK. Even though my clear-tubing bleed line was securely connected, and the bleeder was barely cracked open, there was some fluid dribbling down the caliper and tire onto the floor. Annoying bit not critical. As I rotated the bleeder, I noticed the bleeding tube seemed to not be in line with the axis of the bleeder, even though I reset it several times. Not being able to get my head in there for a good look, I cap-sealed the master cylinder and removed the bleeder completely. Once I got it out and cleaned, I could see the problem - see photo. Most likely the brakes were last done by a 600 lb gorilla. I put the bleeder back in and tightened it gently - I wouldn't want it to snap off in the caliper.

Time for lunch. This afternoon, I'm having a look at the rear system.

Since this is a long weekend in Canada, I won't be able to go shopping for bleeders until Tuesday.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 18, 2018 05:11PM
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Good point Malcolm.  

When I got my car as a project the rear hoses had collapsed inside.  They were working like check valves.  You'd come to a stop and the rears would stay "locked" when you went to move again.

FWIW, the braided hoses cost a bit more than stock rubber ones but have been good investments for me.

Doug L.
 Posted: May 18, 2018 06:37AM
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Check the rear flex hoses Dan they collapse internally and if they are blocked just replace all four as the rest if original are not far behind needing replacement.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: May 18, 2018 04:53AM
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Dan if you can go borrow an easy bleed. That pump pump crack the valve never works for me. My assistant was either pumping too hard or I was letting air back in the system. The eezibleed puts constant pressure in the system. There's nothing more to do than crack the valves or do one go have lunch come back and finish where you left off. I've been so happy with the first one which I use with the dot 5 in the brakes that I bought a second one for the clutch.

 Posted: May 18, 2018 03:58AM
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Thanks, Doug. That's my plan of attack.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 17, 2018 05:07PM
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I cannot answer concerning the split master cylinder.

I suggest that since the system has been open that you crack each joint open from the front to rear of the car.  Start with the connection of the pipe to the MC.  Crack it open and pump the pedal gently until brake fluid drips out.  Close that joint and move to the next one down the line.  Keep doing that, going from joint to joint until you reach the rear wheel cylinders.  

I mentioned I don't use the Pump-pump-pump-crack method of bleeding brakes because it does tend to shift the proportioning valve and close off flow to the rear cylinders.  Any fast, firm pumping will do that.

Doug L.
 Posted: May 17, 2018 10:46AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tothefloor
Boy that took a looong time!! I'm glad you got it done and your backs in good shape
I'm not sure if you meant a long time between working on the Mini or to get the cotter pin spread but yeah... life tends to get in the way.
The master cylinder seems to be primed and holding pressure but I can't get any fluid to drain from the rear bleeders. Before removing he old master, I'd left the right rear not snugged up and it drained a bit onto the floor. The left rear seems bone-dry - I had removed the bleeder completely to clean it and make sure it was not plugged. I'm beginning to suspect that the proportioning valve is stuck. I'm also working alone as my wife is out of town for a funeral, so I've no-one to work the brake pedal at the moment.
I will probably be working my way through the system to flush and replace fluid and bleed air out of each section.

Question: On a yellow-band master cylinder, does the upper section serve the rear or front brakes? (System is split front/rear with 8.4" disks on the front.)

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 16, 2018 04:18PM
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Boy that took a looong time!! I'm glad you got it done and your backs in good shape

 Posted: May 16, 2018 01:05PM
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The new master cylinder is IN! It only took me 15 or 20 minutes to get the pivot pin in and then maybe another 45 to an hour to get the split (AKA cotter) pin in and spread... that little bu**er is slippery.

I used a short scrap piece of 1/4" steel brake line tubing to align the holes from the clutch pedal side, then slipped the pivot pin in from the correct side. Pretty tricky task as I could only get one eye on it so had to guess at distance to line the pin up with the tubing. I was surprised when it actually slipped in. I was doubly surprised to see the hole for the cotter pin actually lined up properly. It was easy to slip the cotter pin in and get it turned around but a challenge to spread its wings and bend them back.

Tomorrow I start the bleeding process. 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 11, 2018 06:36AM
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I'm confident the fronts are 3/8-24 but I don't know the length.  The rears?  Stock ones are 1/4-28 (UNF).  However, a Mini Spares link says some AFTERMARKET modern wheel cylinders have 7mm threads.  Best to measure the thread OD (and length) to be sure. 

While available online, many auto parts stores carry Speed Bleeders.  Measure what you have and compare to what you find in the local stores. 

I use stock bleed nipples and have bleed hoses with inline check valves instead.  The check valves were free while I would have to buy Speed Bleeders so it was a simple decision for me.  If I had to pay for the check valves... I'd go with the Speed Bleeders.

Doug L.
 Posted: May 11, 2018 05:05AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dklawson
If you use the vacuum bleeder, remember that you will get best results by coating the nipple threads with something to prevent air from being sucked in along the threads.  The Speed Bleeders have some type of goo on their threads to seal against air.  In spite of being brakes... you can use grease on the nipple threads.  The grease is not going to get sucked in where the seals are.  Teflon tape is another option.

There are at least two 2-person methods of bleeding.  The one I've seen a lot of guys do is to have one guy in the car who pumps madly to build up pressure then holds the pedal down while the second guy cracks the bleed nipple open.  I don't use that method. 

The method I use is sometimes called the flush method.  One guy under the car cracks the bleed nipple open and calls to the second guy to slowly push the pedal down.  At the end of stroke the guy in the car calls "down" to the first guy who closes the bleed nipple and calls back "release".  The cycle repeats itself until clear liquid without bubbles is seen in the clear tube.  You can generally get by with only one person doing this method if you have a tube with a check valve inline OR if you buy Speed Bleeders.  

If you have let air in the system you may find the pump-pump-pump-release method does not allow you to bleed the rear brakes because it spools the proportioning valve to the closed position.
Doug: I had a look at the "Speed Bleeder" on-line - very interesting. They apparently come in a myriad of sizes.
Do you know which sizes would fit  mid 1980's 8.4" disk calipers and rear drum cylinders?

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 11, 2018 05:00AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheleker
Remove the seats with the brackets attached. Only a couple more bolts, but it solves the problem of the brackets in your back.
Yes, I did think about that. I came to the conclusion that the bracket bolts have been in since the car was built and may be rusted in. I didn't want to get side-tracked on non-brake problems. As it is, the left side demister hose and funnel/nozzle came adrift, so once the brakes are done, the dash card has to come out.  The plywood idea ended up being quite comfortable and very stable, and the door weatherstrip is also protected.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 10, 2018 03:39PM
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Remove the seats with the brackets attached. Only a couple more bolts, but it solves the problem of the brackets in your back.

 Posted: May 10, 2018 01:08PM
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Image Gallery
Progress report: The old master cylinder is OUT (with no apparent injuries!).

Heeding the advice about a pillow etc, I had a think about it - I concluded I could hold my head up but lying over the sill and cross-member, not to mention the seat brackets, I concluded a flat surface to lie on would be beneficial. Conveniently, there was a scrap piece of plywood standing right next to the Mini that fit from the gear shift to about a foot beyond the door sill. With some wood blocking in the rear footwell and a bench and blocking outside the car, which is on jack stands, I had a platform at convenient sitting height where I could sit down outside the car, lie back and get a great view of all the wires between me and the top of the brake pedal. Once I figured out where I needed to see and repositioned about 8 or 9 times, I could actually see the cotter pin. I was able to get it out using mostly patience, a piece of what I think is 1/8" welding rod (I don't weld) and some standard length needle-nose pliers.
The pipe fittings to the master cylinder came undone with WD40 and gentle persuasion, as did the hold-down nuts. Once it was out to the bench, I drained the old master cylinder - pretty murky!

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 9, 2018 09:21PM
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Without reading all the posts.....  

Did someone recommend bench bleeding your new master??  Well worth it.

I think DOT 5 (synthetic) fluid was pretty rare back in the 80s ... so DOT 3/4 would be pretty safe bet.  However, what ever it is, its going to be petty manky by now and (no doubt) needs replacing..  

It would be madness not to go for complete replacement... Which is where the "Ezibleed" comes into its own.  Especially if you choose a fluid that is a different colour.  You can use any of the old methods ... (at least those recommending doing one wheel at a time) just keep pumping until the new stuff comes though.

Basically the numbers indicate the fluids boiling point - the higher the better.  As long you stay way from DOT5 unless you're going for complete flush and replace ... and even then I would be using new seals ALL 'round - DOT 5 is different chemistry to 3/4/5.1 and is not compatible.  DOT5.1 is compatible with 3 and 4 and has he highest BP... but is not that common and (I seem to recall) more expensive. 

And... just a personal perspective .. but I find the old method of sticking a length of clear tube into, say, half a glass jar of new fluid and gently pumping away has a lot to recommend it... You need two people (or maybe a remote camera) to watch the fluid coming out while pumping the pedal.  On the downstroke you'll see old fluid and bubbles while the upstroke will suck a bit of the fluid in the jar back up the tube (the bubbles float away).    Just keep pumping away gently until you see only clear fluid being expelled...  But, MAKE SURE you check the level in the master cylinder regularly.

I do have an Ezibleed but you need to be VERY sure that you get a good seal between the master cap and the device ...and don't use too much pressure (don't ask me how I know .  The vacuum method also works but I seem to have lot of trouble sealing the open bleed valve so that air doesn't get sucked around the bleeder valve threads...

Cheers, Ian

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