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 Posted: May 29, 2018 03:49AM
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CA
Onetim: I had doubts/concerns about damage to hoses as a result of clamping. It just seems counter-intuitive to me. Fortunately I did not have to resort to clamping. Since my brakes needed a good flushing spillage was not a loss.

I was able to do a driveway brake test... WHOA!!!  Big improvement - nice firm pedal with better height and the Mini does a bit of a nose-dive compressing the front Smooth a Ride springs.

Thanks for all the guidance and encouragement guys!

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 28, 2018 11:57AM
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Just a word on clamping off rubber brake hoses. We have a OEM brake line group at work, it’s their opinion you should never clamp off rubber brake lines. You will hear a crunching sound if you listen closely, that is the internal braided line snapping. Can lead to one way lines and or lines expanding under pressure, which will push more fluid than they allow to return. Brakes will drag, get hot, pull one direction.

 Posted: May 28, 2018 06:37AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Glad it is sorted Dan.
If the rear hoses were not blocked and as the bleeders were not bleeding what was blocked?
I haven't been able to figure that out.
Hard to blame it on Lucas, Prince of Darkness. Must be some other Mini diety/demon I upset.
I suspect there might have been some sludge in the bleeding orifices in the rear cylinders that eventually yielded. All I know is that it finally bled by gravity and the pedal feels more or less normal. I was too dirty to sit in the car and give it a proper foot test.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 27, 2018 07:17PM
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Glad it is sorted Dan.
If the rear hoses were not blocked and as the bleeders were not bleedingwhat was blocked?

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: May 27, 2018 09:17AM
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New rear hoses etc. arrived and were installed yesterday. My body is recovering today...
A few fine points discovered:
 - hose wrench size appears to be 11mm but nuts and hard line fittings seem to be 9/16 even though threads were correct.
 - hard pipes on suspension trailing arms are copper - upper ends released OK but fittings to rear brake cylinders were stuck to copper tubing and risked twisting off (could not separate them).
- keeper nuts for each end of hose are different depth - fitting on copper pipe is deeper than on steel pipe. This was learned the hard way after getting the right-side hose almost completely installed but could not tighten the fitting on the copper pipe. So I got to re-and re- 3 rear pipes!
 - car must be level to get every wheel to bleed: I had the car up on all 4 axle stands to do the front part and to bleed as far as the T- fitting at the rear subframe. When it came to replacing the rear hoses, I took the car down and turned it around to get the rear end close to the work bench. Since I "just needed to change the hoses", I lifted the rear end. I got the hoses fully installed but again was unable to get anything out of the rear bleeders. So, I lifted the front end to replace the broken bleeder while I thought about the problem. Then on each side, I loosened the fitting from the copper pipe to the hose and let fluid drain and observed some small bubbles escaping. That told me I had flow as far as the copper pipes. Back under the car, I tried opening the other ends of the copper pipes but stopped as noted above. In despair, I tried the bleeders once more, giving the brake pedal a few pumps. Lo and behold, when I looked at the bleeders, they were damp! At first, they would barely weep but the flow slowly increased to a proper gravity flow.

I think I have most of the air out but a road test is needed to verify pedal feel and stop-ability. I'll put the insurance on it tomorrow.

Once more thing... the rear hoses were not blocked at all.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 22, 2018 02:58PM
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I'm pleased and relieved to report that all four connections to the rear hoses loosened without injury to me or any parts. I have placed an order for standard hoses (they will probably outlast me), replacement bleeder for the right front caliper and a new set of rubber pedal pads... they'll certainly make it stop better!
Until the parts arrive, there are yard chores and the boat needs spring cleaning, waxing and polishing for the upcoming sailing season.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 21, 2018 08:17AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dklawson
Good point Malcolm.  

When I got my car as a project the rear hoses had collapsed inside.  They were working like check valves.  You'd come to a stop and the rears would stay "locked" when you went to move again.

FWIW, the braided hoses cost a bit more than stock rubber ones but have been good investments for me.
I like the braided hoses but the only negative i have come up with is the inability to clamp them off when working on the brake system.

Glad you are getting it sorted Dan i have run into collapsed hoses (and broken nipples for that matter) a number of times.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: May 21, 2018 04:42AM
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Good one, Mark!

Kinda extra funny considering I had a mastectomy (took away one "fitting") and radiation which took away most of the hair on that side.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 20, 2018 03:33PM
 Edited:  May 20, 2018 03:34PM
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URL: [img]https://s5.postimg.cc/uzrlzxxzb/Dripping.jpg[/img]

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S
 Posted: May 20, 2018 02:00PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Check the rear flex hoses Dan they collapse internally and if they are blocked just replace all four as the rest if original are not far behind needing replacement.
You called it!
This afternoon I was able to disconnect the long rear line from the limiter valve and get gravity and pedal flow through it.
Next step was to disconnect one of the pipes at the T-fitting at the rear subframe. All three pipes must have been tightened by the same 600 lb gorilla, but one finally gave in and opened up. Good gravity and pedal flow to this point. Even with the joint opened up I was unable to get any flow from either rear adjuster.
Time for new flex hoses.
Side note: brake fluid will attack epoxy floor paint.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 20, 2018 09:11AM
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CA
Some progress to report, and a small setback.
So far, I've flushed and bled the front system. Both front bleeders opened with little wrench effort and flowed freely, including under gravity alone. I will probably re-flush one I've got the rears flowing. Since the front circuit is short, I decided to try bleeding it first - if it bled OK, I didn't need to crack its joints individually.

On the right-side front caliper, I had trouble keeping a wring wrench firmly seated on the bleeder but it opened OK. Even though my clear-tubing bleed line was securely connected, and the bleeder was barely cracked open, there was some fluid dribbling down the caliper and tire onto the floor. Annoying bit not critical. As I rotated the bleeder, I noticed the bleeding tube seemed to not be in line with the axis of the bleeder, even though I reset it several times. Not being able to get my head in there for a good look, I cap-sealed the master cylinder and removed the bleeder completely. Once I got it out and cleaned, I could see the problem - see photo. Most likely the brakes were last done by a 600 lb gorilla. I put the bleeder back in and tightened it gently - I wouldn't want it to snap off in the caliper.

Time for lunch. This afternoon, I'm having a look at the rear system.

Since this is a long weekend in Canada, I won't be able to go shopping for bleeders until Tuesday.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 18, 2018 05:11PM
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US
Good point Malcolm.  

When I got my car as a project the rear hoses had collapsed inside.  They were working like check valves.  You'd come to a stop and the rears would stay "locked" when you went to move again.

FWIW, the braided hoses cost a bit more than stock rubber ones but have been good investments for me.

Doug L.
 Posted: May 18, 2018 06:37AM
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Check the rear flex hoses Dan they collapse internally and if they are blocked just replace all four as the rest if original are not far behind needing replacement.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: May 18, 2018 04:53AM
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Dan if you can go borrow an easy bleed. That pump pump crack the valve never works for me. My assistant was either pumping too hard or I was letting air back in the system. The eezibleed puts constant pressure in the system. There's nothing more to do than crack the valves or do one go have lunch come back and finish where you left off. I've been so happy with the first one which I use with the dot 5 in the brakes that I bought a second one for the clutch.

 Posted: May 18, 2018 03:58AM
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Thanks, Doug. That's my plan of attack.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 17, 2018 05:07PM
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I cannot answer concerning the split master cylinder.

I suggest that since the system has been open that you crack each joint open from the front to rear of the car.  Start with the connection of the pipe to the MC.  Crack it open and pump the pedal gently until brake fluid drips out.  Close that joint and move to the next one down the line.  Keep doing that, going from joint to joint until you reach the rear wheel cylinders.  

I mentioned I don't use the Pump-pump-pump-crack method of bleeding brakes because it does tend to shift the proportioning valve and close off flow to the rear cylinders.  Any fast, firm pumping will do that.

Doug L.
 Posted: May 17, 2018 10:46AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tothefloor
Boy that took a looong time!! I'm glad you got it done and your backs in good shape
I'm not sure if you meant a long time between working on the Mini or to get the cotter pin spread but yeah... life tends to get in the way.
The master cylinder seems to be primed and holding pressure but I can't get any fluid to drain from the rear bleeders. Before removing he old master, I'd left the right rear not snugged up and it drained a bit onto the floor. The left rear seems bone-dry - I had removed the bleeder completely to clean it and make sure it was not plugged. I'm beginning to suspect that the proportioning valve is stuck. I'm also working alone as my wife is out of town for a funeral, so I've no-one to work the brake pedal at the moment.
I will probably be working my way through the system to flush and replace fluid and bleed air out of each section.

Question: On a yellow-band master cylinder, does the upper section serve the rear or front brakes? (System is split front/rear with 8.4" disks on the front.)

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 16, 2018 04:18PM
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Boy that took a looong time!! I'm glad you got it done and your backs in good shape

 Posted: May 16, 2018 01:05PM
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The new master cylinder is IN! It only took me 15 or 20 minutes to get the pivot pin in and then maybe another 45 to an hour to get the split (AKA cotter) pin in and spread... that little bu**er is slippery.

I used a short scrap piece of 1/4" steel brake line tubing to align the holes from the clutch pedal side, then slipped the pivot pin in from the correct side. Pretty tricky task as I could only get one eye on it so had to guess at distance to line the pin up with the tubing. I was surprised when it actually slipped in. I was doubly surprised to see the hole for the cotter pin actually lined up properly. It was easy to slip the cotter pin in and get it turned around but a challenge to spread its wings and bend them back.

Tomorrow I start the bleeding process. 

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: May 11, 2018 06:36AM
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I'm confident the fronts are 3/8-24 but I don't know the length.  The rears?  Stock ones are 1/4-28 (UNF).  However, a Mini Spares link says some AFTERMARKET modern wheel cylinders have 7mm threads.  Best to measure the thread OD (and length) to be sure. 

While available online, many auto parts stores carry Speed Bleeders.  Measure what you have and compare to what you find in the local stores. 

I use stock bleed nipples and have bleed hoses with inline check valves instead.  The check valves were free while I would have to buy Speed Bleeders so it was a simple decision for me.  If I had to pay for the check valves... I'd go with the Speed Bleeders.

Doug L.

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