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 Posted: Feb 20, 2020 10:47AM
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Found a Video that shows all the parts.  Now makes a little more sense.  Still not sure how the sway bar mounts.  I can see the issues with getting across the tail pipe and parking brake lines.

 Posted: Feb 19, 2020 07:08PM
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Sounds like a standard setup to me ..except with coil springs instead of cones....

Have look where "the bar that goes to the coil spring"  meets "the bar that goes to the wheel"  and all should be revealed...  

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Feb 19, 2020 05:43PM
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Got my car up on my lift today.  Weird rear suspension on this car.  The bar that goes to the coil spring is almost parallel with the bar that goes to the wheel.  Looked at it for awhile trying to figure out how that work's.  I guess as the wheel goes up the parallel bar that goes to the spring  (looks like only three coils, absorbs the load.  Curious, anyway I do see an issue with the sway bar crossing over, near the exhaust pipe.  Should be interesting.

 Posted: Feb 12, 2020 01:24PM
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Hi Dan, quite possibly ... But a coil over would be petty much the same as any "ordinary" car setup.  Kolsen seems to be quite mechanically aware so I would be very surprised if he is asking how a normal coil spring suspension works...

But then he does run one of those weird German cars  

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Feb 12, 2020 08:25AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolsen
I need to get my car up on my lift to really look at the rear suspension.  It looks like a trailing arm but at the wheel end of the arm is a coil spring (coils on all four corners).
Ian:
It sounds like it might be a coil-over conversion. A hydrolastic car would have tension springs at the back but not on the front.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:58PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolsen
I need to get my car up on my lift to really look at the rear suspension.  It looks like a trailing arm but at the wheel end of the arm is a coil spring (coils on all four corners).  Now how would that work.  No pictures in my Haynes manual that show the whole thing.  Jeremy from Portland and Jemal from Nor Cal have been sending me some good info.  I'll get to this sometime in the next month.  In the mean time I'm doing some paint repair on the 911 and front spring replacement on the Hemi/Vette.
Not sure what the real question is.... however "Now how would that work...??"

The Mini rear suspension is a push rod type (just like in Formula 1 ... The trailing arm has a small extension at right angles to the main axis of the arm at the front end.  There is a strut that runs back from the end of this extension roughly parallel to the trailing arm to the back end of the subframe.  Between the strut and the subframe is the rubber cone ..or hydro unit.. or, in your case (it would seem), a coil spring.  As the wheel moves up (over a lump in the road/cornering forces) the small extension moves rearwards and the strut transfer the load to the cone/spring/whatever compressing it...

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Feb 11, 2020 10:21AM
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I need to get my car up on my lift to really look at the rear suspension.  It looks like a trailing arm but at the wheel end of the arm is a coil spring (coils on all four corners).  Now how would that work.  No pictures in my Haynes manual that show the whole thing.  Jeremy from Portland and Jemal from Nor Cal have been sending me some good info.  I'll get to this sometime in the next month.  In the mean time I'm doing some paint repair on the 911 and front spring replacement on the Hemi/Vette.

 Posted: Feb 10, 2020 07:49PM
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US
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolsen
Here's a pic that will get the purists started this morning.  13x7 wheels and you can just see the front spoiler.
Meh.  Nice looking car.

 

"To catch one, you need one"....John Cooper

 Posted: Feb 10, 2020 07:23PM
TK
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AU
outer mounting should be to the trailing arm and not brakes

 Posted: Feb 10, 2020 02:43PM
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I have an 89 and run a rear sway bar that may have come from Mania - I bought it used so I don't know but it looks just like theirs. My experience pretty much mirrors the others. I also run one on my MINI on track and it makes a huge difference on that car as it gives me way more grip in the front, otherwise it just smokes the inside front tire out of slow corners, with the bar nice and stiff it just bites and goes.

Obviously my stock '89 1275 Mini doesn't have the power to do this, but I did like the better turn in and feel running the rear bar. Mine is adjustable and I mostly run it on the softest setting on the street. I also run 13's - mine are 6" wide and I run 175/50 Yoko 539's

It mounts to the rear subframe on the outer edge and getting clearance over the top of the tail pipe is fiddly but will work. A center exhaust would be much easier to get to clear than side.

 Posted: Feb 10, 2020 08:41AM
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Yeah I looked under the rear yesterday.  Where does the sway bar attach?  I read an exerpt from our host and it looks like it's hooked up to the brake somehow.  The article mentioned removing the rear cover from the brake which I don't have.  My brakes are finned and the rear cover is one piece.  Now this is a 1993 so maybe that's different for an earlier car.  Hmm curious?

 Posted: Jan 31, 2020 01:02PM
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one more thing about adding rear sway bars: You'll next have to fight to get exhaust clearance and/or eliminate rattles.

 Posted: Jan 31, 2020 08:01AM
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Thanks a lot guys.  I do have lots of experience autoxing and for the last 20 years driving my 72 911 on track days, but, the engine is on the wrong end, ha ha.  I guess I just assumed the Mini would understeer in most situations.  I think this spring I'll try some different tire pressure combinations before I go to the rear sway bar.  Our host has one that's adjustable which might be the next step.

 Posted: Jan 31, 2020 06:35AM
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US
Having done Solo 2 to the national level, vintage raced even 1/4 mile dirt. I have electronic scales, optical toe,
castor/camber gauges, turn tables and air pressure gauge that reads in tenths. To make taking measurements
easier I have a set of four 5/8 thick aluminum disc drilled for bolt pattern and CV shaft on fronts correct dia for 10s.
I like to start by cutting and moving the front sub bump stop platform up 1/2 inch and gusset it for support.
We know every change has an effect on all the other measurements. I have always used a rear sway bar with
adjustable links on my cars. I do have customers who run KAD front and rear sway bars also with adjustable
links. Starting from scratch it takes hours and three people to get a set up. I like to have the driver in the seat
someone making notes and me making adjustments. Close to my shop there is a section with uphill, down hill
left and right on and off camber with lots of guard rail. Entry speed is around 40 mph and exit down hill off camber
decreasing radius is around 70 mph with a guard rail replaced monthly. Once we have a setting we like I find very
small changes in toe and camber are all that's needed to achieve the feel we are looking for. Yes, sway bars reduce
body roll. Not sure any of this is a help. Steve (CTR)

 Posted: Jan 30, 2020 06:17PM
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You can't beat Spank's views based on experience.... but a little bit of theory can sometimes help.

While things like reduced rear toe in (or none at all), increased tyre pressure and raised rear suspension height will loosen (is this US or just NASCAR terminology?), so will a rear anti-roll bar.  However, while the first 3 do it by reducing rear grip the bar does it by increasing front grip.

When loaded up, the bar transfers weight diagonally across the car so the increased inside front grip will change the front to rear balance.

Unfortunately I've not had the time, money or opportunity to run back to back times laps using all the options.  When I was hillclimbing (reasonably successfully I used 0 rear toe and used to fiddle with tyre pressures and shock settings.  One of the big problems is that you don't really get enough runs ..and conditions change across the day so you never really get an optimal set-up.  Not-with- standing that what "feels" the best is usually not the fastest way....

One strong opinion I do have is that the best track setting is NOT what you want on the road....

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Jan 30, 2020 08:52AM
 Edited:  Jan 30, 2020 11:25AM
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My experience with just throwing on a rear sway bar. I've used both the miniania/minispares road rear sway bar, and an S Racer rear sway bar (well, and another unknown older rear sway bar presumably built for classic minis).

I am absolutely NO EXPERT and am still learning through experience. I've never studied suspension setup and just more or less held Keith Calver's old article's numbers as gospel, with tweeks to adapt for tire wear on track and to correct things/behaviors I don't like.

One thing that they all seem to me to do is make the back end looser and with practice and / or skill, it helps you pivot the car's rear end more easily. But it also can make the car less predictable to drive (which is why I say with practice and/or skill). What it seems to do (again, speaking from only my experiences) is it makes the inside rear wheel lighten and lift up and sometimes break contact with the ground. A tire in the air is not helping with grip, and I need to learn when that will happen so I can use it to my benefit to pivot the car. Sometimes when it unexpectedly lifts, and if I don't provide the correct input at the correct time, it will cause the car to appear to have "snap oversteer". This is only at speed, mind you. This isn't a concern in most normal street driving. To compensate for the lift, the correct response for me is to give it more throttle and counter steer. Instinct is often to lift which just makes it worse.

Once I get the hang of it, the rear sway bar allows me to 4-wheel drift and "skate" the mini around a road course and keep the power applied much longer.


On an autocross course, it allows me to turn(steering wheel), lift (off throttle pedal), pivot, mash throttle to pull through. Turn Lift Pivot Mash. I've found that with a teenie-tiny bit of toe out on the rear, it acts like a rear sway bar in an autocross course. I've learned taht toe out  AND a rear bar are a big no-no for me and my 998 road mini.

On the lemons track mini, I've found I like no rear rear sway bar and no rear toe at all, and just some older/deader rear cones. More drivable and forgiving to all drivers, more predictable, and more safe to take corrective action mid-turn that when it has a rear bar. I really need to have an open track or cars on track all set up similarly to "skate" in order to do the whole John Rhodes thing. If I slide through the corner but the 1990 geo metro next to me with far superiour modern suspension actually "hooks up" and carves the turn, I'm doing to end up going door to door.  The track mini, withOUT sway bar still 4-wheel drifts just fine, but it doesn't happen as quickly and the transition from grip to sliding is more predictable. When we had the swaybar on the rear on the track mini, it would grip grip grip NOT GRIP pretty quickly. At higher speeds the consequences were spinouts and flying off track.

In summary, a swaybar will transfer some of the outside wheel's spring compressive forces to the opposite wheel's spring, sorta increasing or at least changing the outside wheel's spring rate during cornering. And when it maximizes the twist in the swaybar, it will start to just lift the inside rear wheel-- it essentially takes away lots of suspension "droop" on the opposite side wheel on the same axle. Once the outside wheel maximizes the outside wheels compression and the inside rear wheel lifts, both on a road/autocross car and on a track car, you lose the grip of the inside wheel and all grip at that higher cornering force grip requirement is subjected upon that outer tire only. the stiffer the rear swaybar, the sooner that can happen. It would seem to make most sense to choose a swaybar that suits the driving speed and conditions you drive under.

In my opinion, "cornering flat" is over-rated.


The aforementioned John Rhodes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FWP_pEaBXo

 Posted: Jan 30, 2020 07:59AM
 Edited:  Jan 30, 2020 08:03AM
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I have the same wheel problem. Are you taking advantage of the large wheels to run 8.4 disks? I have them non vented, with 4 pot lockheed calipers, I have nothing to compare to mini wise, but they work really well. And a rear sway bar.

 Posted: Jan 30, 2020 07:21AM
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Here's a pic that will get the purists started this morning.  13x7 wheels and you can just see the front spoiler.

 Posted: Jan 30, 2020 07:16AM
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Called our host and yes I'll probably get the rear bar.  I do have coil over shocks which are adjustable so I'll play with it a bit this summer.

 Posted: Jan 29, 2020 06:28PM
TK
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AU
Forget a front sway bar unless you're running a lsd

Found 23 Messages

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