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 Posted: Dec 1, 2020 09:47PM
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US
If you pump the clutch pedal does it go into gear?  Pump it 2 or 3 times.  You need someone to pump the pedal and you watch the clutch arm for movement.  If you pump it and it goes into gear, likely an internal leak in the master and the fluid is passing the seals inside.

 Posted: Nov 30, 2020 07:59PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMini
Good evening guys, and thanks for all of the suggestions, back in August.  I have to report that, with ALL of the pivots, the pushrod, and the lever replaced, nothing changed.  I then replaced the standard pushrod with an adjustable one, and adjusted it to remove all slack.  It continues to shift fine 2-4 but usually refuses to go into 1st with the engine running.  Usually I can feint toward 2nd and then shift into 1st.  Sometimes I cannot shift into ANY gear with the engine running.  Turn it off, put it in 1st, crank and go.

So here I am again, looking for your thoughts.  Can it be the linkage?  It is new and no adjustment seems to make any good difference.

Is it possible to put the clutch disc in backwards?  Has anyone done that?  What happens - can you operate the car with the clutch disc installed wrong?  That is the only thing I can think of, except  ---- could I have a bad master cyl.  I replaced the master and slave while the engine was out.  I have just bled again.  Can anyone tell me how far out the pushrod when the clutch pedal is fully depressed?

It's no fun to drive the car when you have to be prepared at every stop to fiddle and struggle.

Thanks again, and best wishes,
Jack (Too Mini)
Hi Jack, Pretty sure its not possible to put the clutch plate on backwards....  There's not enough room inside the flywheel for the offset centre..

The top of my clutch lever moves about 15/16th of an inch when the pedal is pressed.  Don't know if this is correct .. but mine works.. (noting that I have a fairly non-standard clutch .. (non standard slave, slave rod, flywheel and back plate).

I don't know what slack you removed by adjusting the slave push rod??? (As jedduh says - the only time you need a non standard slave push rod is if the slave piston is bottoming out on the retaining C clip when you floor the clutch pedal).  All the longer rod does is move the slave piston up and down (well I suppose more correctly, in and out) within the slave bore.

(I apologise in advance is this is egg sucking but) The clutch is adjusted using the small bolt/locknut on the wok about halfway up the clutch lever.  (I'm assuming you have a "non Verto clutch - don't think I've seen the specifically stated??).  How much space is there between the end of the bolt and the clutch arm with the pedal released?

Assuming the earlier (than Verto ) setup, have you tried removing the return spring that attaches to the top of the clutch lever?? If not, take it off and go for a short drive... 

The only other possibility (outside the gearbox) I can think of is that the primary gear is somehow hanging up on the crankshaft taper... While the clutch plate may be releasing, the primary gear (and gearbox) continues to spin because the PG is binding?? 

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Nov 30, 2020 07:48AM
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Another test

    Put the car in 1st gear.

 Press the clutch = Start the car. 

 Does the car LURCH? or struggle to turn with the clutch engaged while in gear?

This is another identifyer of not enough clutch throw to disengage clutch for gear operation.

 Posted: Nov 30, 2020 07:46AM
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US
Pull the boot off of the clutch slave..  have someone press the clutch.
 Make sure the Piston inside the Clutch slave isnt moving and stopping on the Cir-clip Inside the Cylnder.

If that is the case  =  you need a slightly longer clutch rod ( due to wear everywhere)
   you can also shove a nut in there for a tempoary test. It doesn't totally answer why other gears work, but  My bet is like with others- Inadequate clutch throw.

Where are you located?  Any other mini owners or club to connect with for another set of eyes on the problem?

 Posted: Nov 29, 2020 07:05PM
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Thanks for the reply.  This is a 4-syncro box, so yes, it would normally go into 1st at rolling speed.  The problem is it won't even go into 1st sitting still with the motor running!  For the first 20 years I owned it, no problem with that, but the 2nd gear shift fork was worn out so it didn't like going into 2nd.  Now, after a full rebuild, it's a different, and I have to say, worse problem.

However, I do not think this is a fault with the box - not MiniMania's fault.  Maybe a clutch problem.

Wish I knew!

Thanks,
Jack

 Posted: Nov 29, 2020 07:03PM
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What style of gearbox is it, rod change or remote? Some info here would help with suggestions on problem areas in the shift linkage that can be checked.

Personally I would be looking at the clutch and associated parts in the hydraulics as what you describe is a bang on description of clutch drag. This is caused by insufficient throw of the clutch assembly and presents as difficulty selecting 1st gear with the motor running.

 Posted: Nov 29, 2020 07:03PM
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US
I recall having a similoar problem with my clutch. The clutch pedal would go all the way to the floor before I could get it into gear. I installed a longer actuating rod which solved my problem. It was about 1/2 inch longer.
The lever on yours may be bent or the ball on the end worn.

 Posted: Nov 29, 2020 04:27PM
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Just a quick note that 1st in a mini is really a creeper gear, and on mine can only be shifted into 1st, on a roll, from 5 mph or less.

 Posted: Nov 29, 2020 03:10PM
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Good evening guys, and thanks for all of the suggestions, back in August.  I have to report that, with ALL of the pivots, the pushrod, and the lever replaced, nothing changed.  I then replaced the standard pushrod with an adjustable one, and adjusted it to remove all slack.  It continues to shift fine 2-4 but usually refuses to go into 1st with the engine running.  Usually I can feint toward 2nd and then shift into 1st.  Sometimes I cannot shift into ANY gear with the engine running.  Turn it off, put it in 1st, crank and go.

So here I am again, looking for your thoughts.  Can it be the linkage?  It is new and no adjustment seems to make any good difference.

Is it possible to put the clutch disc in backwards?  Has anyone done that?  What happens - can you operate the car with the clutch disc installed wrong?  That is the only thing I can think of, except  ---- could I have a bad master cyl.  I replaced the master and slave while the engine was out.  I have just bled again.  Can anyone tell me how far out the pushrod when the clutch pedal is fully depressed?

It's no fun to drive the car when you have to be prepared at every stop to fiddle and struggle.

Thanks again, and best wishes,
Jack (Too Mini)

 Posted: Aug 26, 2020 08:04PM
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No one has yet asked if the trans can be put into reverse while running - no syncro to fight/help so grinding or crunch to be heard.  Another test for non releasing clutch -  car on smooth level surface, not running, brakes off.  select first or reverse, clutch to floor and crank/start - if car moves at all the clutch is not fully disengaging and will make it hard to select a gear from stopped (not a problem with the trans).

I'll assume its a rod change trans as pot joints mentioned, a shifter assembly with sloppy bushings, tilted housing or poorly aligned shaft can affect gate selection and give a vague feeling.  Pot joints can be almost impossible to remove, I've destroyed side covers and bent tools to get some off.  Some aftermarket ones were really bad as they did not have a taper to compress the circlip for removal.

As for running in reverse to give some break-in time, the mainshaft and shift hubs are spinning backwards to the gears so any "tight" syncro would have a chance to wear in to the gear surface.  Similar (but faster) effect to running in neutral - gears spinning with mainshaft and hubs stationary. 

 Posted: Aug 23, 2020 01:27PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonRacine
Even if it worked great when you first installed it and some time there after and assuming you were not racing it- it should not have this problem after only 2 years.  If you pay the shipping we will replace what ev er is wrong at no cost.
Big Props to you, Don and MiniMania for extending this offer to the OP.

THAT's customer service!

 Posted: Aug 23, 2020 06:47AM
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Thanks Don, I appreciate that, but this is not a good time to pull an engine. 

Your guys told me that it would eventually loosen up and I see no reason to doubt their expertise, but I asked the question to see if others have gone thru the same experience and come out OK.  I'm sort of surprised that nobody else said so.

Anyway, if it continues for long enough to get around to having the energy to pull it out once more I will take your advice.  I realize you can't be on the hook for it forever and I'm less concerned about the cost than I am about the drivability.

Thanks very much for your response.

Jack Bissett (Too Mini)

 Posted: Aug 22, 2020 06:19PM
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DonRacine
US
Even if it worked great when you first installed it and some time there after and assuming you were not racing it- it should not have this problem after only 2 years.  If you pay the shipping we will replace what ev er is wrong at no cost.

 Posted: Aug 22, 2020 05:00PM
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Dan Moffet,
I didn't think about this last night but you're right.  It has 4 sync.  I really should try letting the sync work.  Thanks for the reminder, again.

Jack (Too Mini)

 Posted: Aug 22, 2020 09:11AM
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Thanks to all of you.  Yes I have checked clutch hydraulic and pedal action and I am pretty sure I have eliminated all those as a source of the problem.  It is true that double-clutching into first should work and sometimes does.  I just need to practice!  Very scared of further unhappy noises.  Gently, gently!

Shifting into 2nd seems to be the most reliable solution, even tho sometimes I can get into none of the gears and have to cut it off and start over.  Never having had a "new" tranny before I don't know what is acceptable so I hope these are all symptoms of newness.  Need to drive it more - It doesn't get driven enough! 

It's out of warranty now - I misspoke - it was actually replaced in late 2018, so no return without big cost.  But if after another year it is still not working right I will consider pulling it and replacing it.  Had a devil of a time with the CV joints last time so I'm not anxious to start the process again!  The wrong circlips had been installed before, I assume, and I had to cut the CV joints into little pieces to get the thing out!

Thanks for the opportunity to vent, and thanks to you all for your thoughtfulness.
Jack

 Posted: Aug 22, 2020 04:21AM
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CA
+1 for signs of clutch problems. In the mean time, try gently downshifting into 1st before you come to a stop, more or less at the road speed and rpm you would have on a gentle up-shift.  With 1st gear synchronization, it should go into gear easily while the car is moving. Keep it in 1st at the traffic light. Yes, you add a bit of wear to the crankshaft thrust bearings, but it would be minimal until you get the clutch sorted. For longer stops/waits, you could turn off the engine if you are really worried about it.

By matching engine speed with gearbox revolution speed it is possible, without damage, to go through all forward gears, up and down without using the clutch. Reverse, not so much! I once had a clutch cable (non-Mini) snap and drove about 10 miles on country roads to get home. Yes, I did have to roll a couple of stop signs.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Aug 21, 2020 03:57PM
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Since it is FIRST gear, make sure you have ruled out all of the other stuff like air in the hydraulic system, wear in the clevis pins at the wok and on the pedal, and that your stop bolt is adjusted properly.

Apologies if this sounds condescending, but trouble getting into first is the first sign of problems with clutch/pedal throw. Then comes second and then third.

If you've exhausted all other possibilities or possible explanations, and if you are able to, I'd send it back. That's not cheap to buy a rebuilt gearbox let alone the time and expense of installing it.  Substandard parts is not an excuse. They shouldn't sell it if it doesn't meet minimum standards without a warning BEFORE you purchase and install it.

I strongly encourage you to just go ahead and replace the cotter pins in the pedal and at the lever arm regardless. Cotter pins aren't that expensive.

 Posted: Aug 21, 2020 03:53PM
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Before sending the gearbox back and demanding one that works.... where I live we have consumer protection laws that work against defective products.... I would be doing a few more checks.

IMHO, not going into first as you describe is a clutch issue rather than a problem with the box.  If the clutch is not fully disengaged the box will resist the change to first from neutral.  Minimike's proposal works by using the second synchro to overcome this glitch.  I would be looking very carefully at clutch actuation.

And I'd love to know what driving around in reverse is supposed to do???

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Aug 21, 2020 02:56PM
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US
when you shift to first, do you slip it into second and then to first from a standing start?  I used to do that years back on my ADO 16.   Pull it into 2nd and then into 1st and see if that works.

 Posted: Aug 21, 2020 01:49PM
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Good evening,
Last year I needed a gearbox and bought a rebuilt one from MM.  I have only put several hundred miles on the car since, mostly because the box does not like to shift into 1st, engine running.  No problem engine off.

I asked about this and was told that the current run of sync rings was not as good as they would like and they encouraged me to run it in reverse as much as possible!

This has not, so far, been effective.  Has anyone been through this and finally come out with a properly working box?  How many miles did it take?  It's not much fun to drive with this little irritation, specially at a stop, with a big truck waiting behind me!

Mini Thanks!
Too Mini