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 Posted: Mar 26, 2024 08:09PM
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That diagnostic app definately looks valuable. Brought my alternator in today for testing. It's totally dead, so that's interesting. I was concerned about the voltage regulator. Ordering another one tomorrow. Thanks, Steve

 Posted: Mar 26, 2024 12:56PM
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US
I see James Portman now sells the cables:
https://shop.jmpe.co.uk/products/rover-3-pin-ecu-diagnostic-connector

You should be able to power probe the fuel pump at the inertia switch.

 Posted: Mar 26, 2024 12:50PM
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US

One other thing is to connect a diagnostic app. They are not a solution but can give you more data points to pinpoint issues. Also useful once you have it running.
This is one:
https://rovermems.com/

There are others. If you are Ok with making a cable, the parts are available from Mouser or Digikey. You can also buy them on ebay.

There are also commercial tools that will connect.

Again I don't have an SPi, but the tools allow you cycle the component relays on an MPi engine.

 Posted: Mar 26, 2024 12:16PM
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It would seem like the most likely culprit at this point is the relay box, but it's new I'd like to find all the fusible links so I'm going to have to really trace wires to find them. I thought they were all in front of the starter, that's where they are on my 89. I don't hear any noise/priming from the fuel pump when I turn the key. It still seems it would be some component like the relay box that affects both systems, considering I lost both at the same time. I've got a power probe, so I can send 12 volts to the fuel system as long as I'm sure which wire I'm probing. Thanks for the help.

 Posted: Mar 26, 2024 06:44AM
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If everything is working except fuel and spark, then there are a few things to check. I would verify the continuity of the inertia switch for fuel just to rule it out.


It appears one fusible link feeds the power to the multi function unit main relay with multiple wires. You should be able to back trace those wires to the fusible link. Pretty sure they are the larger gauge brown wires. I do not have an SPi, so may be someone can provide the location of the fusible link.

 

People do get creative with wiring and there are sone wires that run between the firewall and the engine, if these are not attached in the right place they can be chafed.

Do you hear the fuel pump being primed at all when first turning on the key? In one of the Rover manuals, there is a description of the starting sequence. Although it may not be specific to your year and model, it may have some clues as to where to look. I will see if i can find it.

There is a whole SPi troubleshooting thread on the Mini Forum UK and although a lot would not apply, it may be worth the time to look through it.

 

 

 Posted: Mar 24, 2024 01:56PM
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This is the current update on the 93. I finally took the time to more carefully read the post with the diagram. It has been really helpful once you spend a few minutes with it. It's completely clear which diagram applies. So I was looking at it and it seems the fusible links are the next thing I need to check. The shop that charged me $1200 claims they checked the fusible links, but who knows. I did a continuity check between the plug off the alternator to the starter solenoid. I have continuity. I would like to physically see the fusible links, but I can't find them. On my 89, the links are right above the starter. Not there on the 93. The inline fuse under the dash and against the firewall are all good. I have everything except spark and fuel. I lost both of them at the same time so it seems it should involve something that controls both of them. The car turns over but does the ignition also communicate with the coil/distributor and the fuel system (Fuel pump and SPI)? My heads been spinning because I'm trying to troubleshoot and order the correct coil/distributor for my 89. That's a long story but I believe I've sorted that out. One other observation, I don't have any light, the red and yellow ones on the dash when I turn the ignition key to the run position or energize the starter. It seems the ignition would energize those lights regardless of what's going on forward of the firewall.

 Posted: Mar 24, 2024 05:21AM
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Any update? If you really have lost all power including headlights, I would definitely do as Alex suggests and remove any extraneous wires to the fuse box, recheck proper connections and then see if you have power at the fuse box. Your car should have a number of line fuses as well. The diagram on the Miniforum may not be the easiest to follow, but it should enable you to get the wires in the right places

 Posted: Mar 23, 2024 10:42AM
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Since both Alex and 6464s have mentioned this, I'm "Jumping on the bandwagon" about the relay pack, even though it is new. Please do, as 6464s has mentioned, bypass the starter relay first, then, if no success, the ecu power relay in order to see if the relays inside your black relay box are correctly allowing current flow through them. (IIRC, that relay box has 4 small relays packed in the box, so be sure to choose your wires carefully!) Let us know. And, if it comes to striking that match, please let someone come and tow it away before it comes to that!! (ha ha) Best regards, MSH

All Together Now.... Everybody......
 Posted: Mar 20, 2024 06:43AM
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GB

3rd picture - the white wire on the left of the second fuse should be on the top fuse.
White is switched live (from the ignition switch).  The green on the other side is fused switched live circuits (gauges, indicators etc).

Brown is permanent live unfused from the battery. Purple on the other side is fused permanent live (horn, interior light etc).

They should be on separate terminals and it could be that the switched live isn't getting to the ignition circuits or relay box.

 Posted: Mar 20, 2024 06:15AM
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This is what a fusible link looks like on an MPi, a later car. I am not sure where they are on your, but it would look similar.

 

 Posted: Mar 20, 2024 05:38AM
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Rereading the early post, it says you have lost all power. As Alex said there is some "creative wiring" that needs to be identified.
With a loss of all power, I would look at the fusible links, it appears there are several on your car., but maybe only one or two that could cause a loss of all power. On the Mini forum UK, there have been several discussions on replacing fusible links. Finding a replacement in the US may take some research, but they have been used in US cars since the 60s, at on GM products.

 Posted: Mar 20, 2024 01:57AM
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GB

Pictures 5 & 6 have the fuel pump cutoff reset button in them - it's the oblong repay with the push button on the top.

There is also a LOT of non-standard wiring coming out of that tired looking fusebox...

I'd be unplugging and tracing every circuit.

 Posted: Mar 19, 2024 11:49AM
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If you go to this link:
https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/324929-wire-diagrams-redrawn/

About midway there is a section: From Rover repair manual AKM 7169 1992 - 1996

That should cover your year.

 Posted: Mar 19, 2024 10:18AM
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I appreciate everyone's help on this 93 mini before I burn it to the ground. The GCU numbers are MNE10092 0753 4047 and it's a Rover MEMS made in the UK. The relay box is brand new. I am sending pictures of the components on the car along with the engine bay. It's a manual transmission. No A/C.

 Posted: Mar 19, 2024 08:13AM
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Does anyone know if the 93 Minis had a fusible link?
My experience is with later MPi and very early Minis. Many times people overlook the fusible link if there is one.
Terry

 Posted: Mar 18, 2024 06:28PM
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Hi 4Minis, You have definitely received a lot of good advise from some known Very Knowledgeable Mini Folk here, so I hope you'll get your Minis running. If you would like, I have a few things to add. I'm focusing on the 93 here. I have a copy of an E file of Electrical Drawings if you'd like. Please email me directly ( em in profile ) and I'll forward asap. If your 93 car has a crank sensor (mounting in the clutch case below the starter) check it out and its connections. Consider checking your grounds very carefully, and of course, cleaning, then coating them with a light coating of dielectric grease. Please, if you can, post a photo of your underbonnet area so we can familiarize ourselves with what you are dealing with. Get a close up of the ECUs you have and determine the MNExxxxxxxxx number of the Rover sticker. If you have a single large plug on your ECU, then it may not have, or may not need to have the Alarm or immobilizer functionality . I have more to offer, but will wait for your reply to this. Best of luck on getting them running! MSH

All Together Now.... Everybody......
 Posted: Mar 18, 2024 11:09AM
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At this point, I wouldn't bet against you Alex. A known good ECU didn't correct the problem. The ECU and new fuse box just showed up today. The ECU didn't fix the problem. I was really careful cleaning the terminals on the old fuse box and putting the connectors back on the original terminals. The continuity across the fuses was good. There's one wire by itself second one down on the left side of the fuse box. I may have moved that one from the front spade to the back spade. Does that make any difference? Car didn't start when put the connector back on the original back spade. I need to get that new fuse box in. I've ordered the later Haynes manual, not here yet. The car has had a lot of wiring done. The color of the wires going into and out left to right on the fuse box are different in some cases. I need a good wire diagram. Thanks for the help. I'm nearly at the end of my patience with these 2 Minis.

 Posted: Mar 18, 2024 08:36AM
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+1 for Alex.

Once I cleaned and soldered the underside of the fuse box and got rid of the in line fuses and replaced with spade type fuses, I don't have any more electrical issues. None. I also placed the spade fuse holder above the air cleaner instead of Rover's directly above the exhaust manifold position.

 Posted: Mar 18, 2024 02:16AM
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GB
I'd bet a pint it's not the ECU considering the components you've been playing with.

Check the connections and continuity across all the fuses, and double-check that the correct wires are connected to the correct terminals.  If feels like you've inadvertently disabled the whole relay box or the fuel pump.

 Posted: Mar 14, 2024 12:47PM
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That's really good advice. I've been warned about corrosion on the fuse box. I'm going to order one now. It's too bad the shipping takes so long.

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