//www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/210788-the-argentinian-job/

Another example.  I really like these with wood and pickets.  Much cleaner look without drilling into the side of the car to mount the flares like both of these cars have done. 

//forsale.evo.co.uk/private/1648

JBW makes a 12x6 deep dish wheel that goes well with sportpack sized flares.  I intend on putting them on my truck, but different flares.   

Very interesting numbers Ian. I will try to get some weights on six inch wide 10, 12, and 13 inch wheels as well as the common tires. That should be a useful comparison.  I should have emphasised that I went with the narrowest wheel I could still get away with fitting the 175/50-13 A539 tires. The tread width is around 6.75 so a bit wide for five inch wheels.  My measurement wasn't exactly scientific, but I was trying to give a useful dimention to a Lotus racer to decide if they'd fit his application.

I got 19.6 inches for my spare, a Yoko 008 on a Cooper S steel 10 x 4.5 rim. The 13 x 5 with the A539 measured 19.8".  The Falken 12s had to be at least 21" (all measured OFF the car).    I'll see how many new tires I can line up and take a side by side picture to post.

I agree that extra width really complicates clearance at the front. Also messes with alignment, throws the wheel bearing loading into disarray, and generally upsets the balance and "nimbleness" of the Mini (but once again, a LOT of us like the look!). It's hard to tell in the photos, but my front wheel arches have a good two inches removed from the top. We reformed the top seam much wider and stronger than the original to add sideways stiffness and protect the tires in case of contact. When I had the Hi-Los all the way down, it did hit my rubber "flare" in front of the wheel on the OUTSIDE of a turn, where it looks so close in the picture. The bump stops seem to keep the top of the tire safe, so far!  I think if I were to bang into a gas station, the back tires would hit!

Ahh Grasshopper, the reason for the tallest possible wheel/tire combo is because on most VTEC engines the trannys were geared for 15" wheels/tire combos or larger. So unless one likes driving 65mph at 5000 rpm's the 13's are the tallest that normally fit with flares and cutting.

I changed down to 13x6's from 7's because the frame geometry forced the passenger side wheel to stick out one inch and the 6" wide wheels are also a trick to help with the massive torque steer along with a Quaife LSD and Protech shocks and springs.

I also went in on the group by for the taller Ring & Pinion gearing to lower the rpms even more. I can now drive 80 mph at about 4100 rpm! Makes the drive so much more pleasant especially if you have a passenger. My ride is much more a track car than an autocrosser now.

I guess that made it simple. No to 13" wheels. I will stick with the 12" wheels and maybe do some different flares. What about the sport pack flares and a 1" wheel spacer to move the wheels out to fill up the flares? Or would that look totally trashy? Thanks for all the great answers btw!

61MiniMe-
Why do you say 13s are mandatory for vtec conversions?

I am actually thnking of going to 12x6s from my 13x6s.

This post has me interestd in possibly buy some 12s!

Nope. BT, DT. You have to trim starting from roughly just forward of the center of the arch around to the join at the valence and re-bend the lip outward to retain stiffness (stiff upper lip?). There have been a number of mag articles on how to do this. I used the mounted wheel/tire combo as a pattern to trace the cut line on the wing. After the first deep breath, it's Easy-peasy.

Wondering if the baseball bat method would be sufficient to get him a little better clearance without cutting.

Yes, width is the main determinant of the need to cut the fenders/wings. 6" (perhaps 5.5") is the threshold. As the topic involves 13x6 wheels, cuts would be necessary. If 13x6 wheels exist that don't need metal cuts, I'd love to see them! Must have a ton of positive offset...

The numbers above  show the nominal height of the commonly available Mini tyre/wheel combos.  The numbers are "nominal" because one companies "165/70X10" tyre is not actually the same dimension as anothers....  But the comparison is instructive.  Several companies used to provide actual dimension for their various sizes but now I can't find such data on any of the manufacturer sites I've checked..

Does anyone have data to draw up a similar table for weight (perhaps using a representative wheel/tyre combo from a common manufacturer)??

The need to trim arches is not a function of tyre diameter but one of width. A mate who worked for a wheel company was able to build a set of 13" wheels that fitted perfectly under standard (Oz) S wheel arches (with 175/50 tyres).  Jemal's photo illustrates the issue perfectly.  I'd be fascinated to see the car turn sharply across a normal gutter (ie to drive into a gas station...)

As with most things, the answer to the original question is..... it depends..

Cheers, Ian 

I maintain that all the common 12" wheel & tire combos are TALLER than the A539 50-series on 13 inch wheels. The black wheel in the photo is a 12 x 5 with Falken 165/60-12. It is AT LEAST an inch taller than than the 13 inch combo mounted on the car! 

To me this says that the 12 inch combos will require MORE body cutting if you want to run low. It also explains why the 12s have the best ride, with their combination of large contact patch and taller sidewall.  They will also work with the big brakes. Sounds like a win-win!  But ooops, the deal killer is my liking of more wheel and less tire! We do make sacrifices for the look we want!

Maybe it's a personal thing. I'm not ever satisfied with the wheel /tire combo I have on my car. It seems I have tried at least 10 different 10 inch wheel and tire combos. I have 4 - 12 inch wheel and tire combos I have been trying. In the past I have had 13x6 and 13x7 with 175 and 205s as well as 10x13 slicks. Adjustable suspension and a willingness to trim sheet metal and add flares is required to run 13s (I feel). My plan now is to buy 4.5 S offset Minilites with 165/70 Falkins. No flares not body trimming and enough tire to get the job done. I'd like to be able to run 145s for comfort but with the power my 1360 Cooper S engine is making I feel a need for more grip.

I spent $18,500. building this car in 2001 drove it 87,000 miles and spent another $8500. last year replacing engine /tranny/brakes/suspension/intake exhaust. I picked up 16 12 inch wheels with mounted tires. Either I'm hard to please or just plain crazy. Steve (CTR)

X2

My references to handling, aren't about grip and lap times. To me, the term "handling" involves subjective factors like steering weight, feel, ease of controllability, precision of placement, and predictability.

On the scores of weight, feel, and ease of control, I think 13"ers are significantly inferior. A lot of what is "Mininess" to me is how tossable and light they feel throwing them around (and the ability to drive them with such abandon, even if it doesn't lead to the best lap times.) A great deal of this is usually lost moving from 10" to 13".

Ride is usually inferior too, due to the unsprung weight differences (5 lbs. is a lot for a Mini) and the design parameters of the Mini suspension. Relatively unsophisticated, and with very limited travel, the Mini depends quite a bit on tire sidewall compliance for springing and ride levelling effects. Reducing the amount of sidewall has a bigger impact on the Mini than "normal" cars IMHO. 

And I am no purist, since both of the Minis I own have 13" wheels. I don't mind them, and I like the looks, but I'm under no illusions that they're better. I don't have that agile feel that is a Mini trademark.

Now that I have 2 Minis, I wish one of them were a 10" or maybe 12" wheeled Mini, but it's too difficult to revert with the wheelwells cut out to accomodate 13"'s. I kind of feel it's an irreversible decision, given the difficulty of restoring the lost sheetmetal. So it pays to think about this very carefully.

Yeah, I know. Those are the extreme example of the stated mantra. I just threw in some hyperbole for effect. I promised myself I'd stop going for the easy ones. I'm so ashamed. 

 As shown, I liked the look, too. Knowing what I know now, I just wouldn't do it again.

Lol. I would hardly call 13x7's anything comparable to a Donk...

That's what I thought, too. It's why I went to 13's, thinking that they were necessary for my (then) planned B Series VTEC conversion (later completed).

 I was wrong, as proven by several conversions done without 13's. 

Whilst 9.5" vented rotors and four pot calipers are impressive, much smaller setups stop Se7en and Miglia racers successfully from racing speeds repeatedly.

IMO, only if you plan frequent track days running high speeds consistently or if you're going to hammer down back roads at triple digit speeds (like some conversion shop proprietors I know), might large brakes be 'mandatory'. It's the 'mandatory' part I'm questioning, not the looks or mental comfort of "big brakes" as Jemal put it. Shoot, that's most of why I went that route myself!

As far as contact patch is concerned, wide 10's can handle D-Series conversions and B-Series conversions can overpower 13's anyway.

If you like "...the look of more wheel and less tire", and feeling every expansion joint you run over, reference Air2air's post and go for it. It's your car, and your butt, your back, and the condition of the roads in your area that matter, so go with whatever blows your dress up. But I stand by my experience with 12's and 13s.

Full disclosure: I recently bought a new set of silver 17" rims and tires to replace the 19" chromed ones that came on my newest car. They ride much better and are truer to the original spec than the 19s.

I'm with Jemal on this one. I love the look of more wheel and less tire. Are there drawbacks? Sure. Weight is the biggest drawback, but it's not like a 20lb per wheel difference. I'm currently looking at light weight 3 piece wheels in 13x7 that will be lighter than a lot of 10 inch wheels...

For everyone saying that it has a negative effect on handling, I can almost guarantee that you would have just as much fun on a track in my car as you would in a stock mini with 10's... And with the exception of the few on here that actually race their minis quite a bit, I'm sure that 90% of the cars on here have never seen a track. My car with 13x7's, cut fenders, and fully adjustable suspension has seen the track, and I still have a serious blast in it.

It comes down to aesthetics, personal taste, style, and maybe 10% of people on here have actually driven all platforms enough to really know the difference. I had 12's for 2 years, have had 13's for 3 years, and drove a car with 10's for a few months. All have different characteristics, but I love my 13's.

Well if a VTEC is in your future then the 13's are manditory!