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 Posted: Mar 19, 2016 09:58AM
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CA
Thanks, minimans!
Even high strength, finely machined steel components will fail when overloaded. My brother drove concrete mixers. On one of his early jobs. he was backing up a sandy rise. The back tandem axle did a wheel hop. When it stopped, the splined end of the inter-axle driveshaft was broken and the splines twisted like that stringy cheese. Quite a souvenir for a wasted work day.

One of my mottos: "Buy a good tool and you buy it once. Buy a cheap tool and buy it over and over again." 
My cone compressor is here on my office desk, all nice and clean, ready to be used in another 5 or 10 years.  Still a bargain.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Mar 19, 2016 07:25AM
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Dan that was one hell of a good post! As a mechanic and fabricator of over 45 years I have learned two things, the value of good tools and the fact that you will never get a non professional to understand that value has nothing to do with cost!
$120 bucks for a tool? How much for an emergency room visit? Or that paint job when your all thread snaps like a twig..........

trigger boy boy there's a difference between a "fabricator" and a bodger..............

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Mar 19, 2016 06:59AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggerboy
I have money but i just dont have the guts to buy a $110 cone conpressor, i know i can make one, i am a fabricator remember? I can fabricate everything , the only thing i can't fabricate are stories.
i have a picture of the compressor im still studying its components and how it works, i just confused, apart from the compressor itself, why are there 2other long shafts with pointed end and threaded end, sir dan said it is used to center the cone , but Why is it threaded???????? Bizarre design.
Tony:

The Cone compressor has many parts. The assembled length is about 460mm. (Whatever that is in your other picture is cute, but useless.)

1. The base is a hollow heavy duty steel pipe 17mm inside diameter, 25mm outside diameter 212mm tall, threaded/welded into a 25 mm hole in the base plate 100mm long by 38mm wide x 8mm thick. Overall height is 220mm. It must stick up higher than the fender to allow room to turn the levers under high tension.

The central Core is in 2 sections:

2. The upper threaded pulling part is about 270mm long x 15mm outside diameter. It is hardened steel, not stock threaded rod. At the top is a smaller T-handle is 125mm long and 7mm in diameter + the knobs on each end. The threaded section is 190mm long (the pulling length), with the thread O.D. of 15mm and the I.D about 12.5mm. The bottom 50mm is threaded on the inside only - approx 10mm diameter to receive the lower part of the core. Permanently assembled on the pulling section is the cast winding handle: it is about 170mm long with 12mm dia wings. Its hub is about 27mm thick x 35mm diameter and has a steel thrust washer cast into the bottom to ride on the outer shell pipe. It needs to be smooth, hard and greased, or you won't be able to turn it.
3. The lower part of the core is 220mm long 13mm thick and made of hardened steel. It comes in two types "Metric" and "Unified" (Imperial thread). The bottom end consists of a 5mm high x 10.5mm conical point on a smooth 9.5mm x 6mm long guide shaft that helps centre and align the core into the dirty, crusty thread in the suspension cone waaaaaay down in the subframe tower. The next threaded section is threaded "metric" or "unified" depending on the age of your cones. These are raised threads. If you use and force the wrong one, you end up destroying the thread in the cone, making the job much harder.) There are three thread cleaning slots cut into the tip and thread - to clean the rubber cone threads. (The "unified" tip only has 2 cleaning slots.)    The top section is reduced to about 9.5mm for 33mm and is fine-threaded to go into the upper threaded pulling part (2 above). The important thing here is the lock nut - it must be tight or you risk it coming apart inside your suspension tower when you are releasing tension on the new cone. The lock nut must also fit down the outer core.

This is a big, heavy-duty, strong SAFE tool that is worth every penny. Much cheaper than when a home-made one snaps or crumples and takes out your windshield (the bonnet must be removed to do this work) or a piece of your head. 

These need to be strong. I found it hard work to turn the proper tool once you get to full cone compression. Jeg is right - 3 to 1 on the front,meaning the front spring actually holds 3x the force the tire does. So if your front tire at rest supports about 400 pounds, the spring pressure at rest is about 1200 pounds. But you must wind it to almost full compression, so the forces get huge. What is the tensile strength of hardware-store threaded rod? Doubtful. 

Whatever that is in your other picture is cute, but useless.


.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Mar 19, 2016 02:32AM
jeg
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Steve, I just checked my disintegrating copy of Vizard's HtMYM, and Calver's 'Lowering the Dry Suspension' article; the front ratio is generally accepted as 3:1.  The rear is 5:1.  

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Mar 19, 2016 12:39AM
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US
Lots of craziness and misinformation here.  trumpet to wheel ratio is 5 to 1, not 3 to one,  a 3/16 washer will change ride height about an inch.
  The coil overs, aside from the cost of the well matched sets, also increase travel, unless you use a well matched progressive coil. Increased travel means ride height must be increased.  Don't care much about cornering, then go for it.  The upper brackets are strong enough; after all, big bumps will be absorbed by the bump stops.
  A one inch thick piece of tire rubber on top of the trumpets?  REALLY!  That's ridiculous on several counts, I have to think he is just trolling you guys.
The spring compressor is actually something that he might be able to make himself;  Like most of us have.  A piece of all-thread from the hardware store and some nuts and washers, for about 5$.  Just remember that there are two different thread sizes used according to what model year the cone springs were made for; (Standard for early cars or Metric for later).
  Cutting the tip off of the bump stop is not going to help him much....the tip, being of the smallest cross section, has the softest rate and just softens the lead into the thicker portion which is doing 90% of the work. The suspension will still arrest at about the same point as before the cut, with little difference noticed in ride quality.  If he cuts too much off or removes the stops completely, the high suspension angularity will become an issue....ball joint and cv joint bind, and/or tire/wheel interference and alignment issues to name a few possibilities.  Then Replacing the bump stops is usually a real bugger of a job.
  
 

Retired manufacturer of VTEC/Mini performance conversion kits

 Posted: Mar 18, 2016 02:02PM
 Edited:  Mar 18, 2016 02:18PM
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Image Gallery
I have money but i just dont have the guts to buy a $110 cone conpressor, i know i can make one, i am a fabricator remember? I can fabricate everything , the only thing i can't fabricate are stories.
i have a picture of the compressor im still studying its components and how it works, i just confused, apart from the compressor itself, why are there 2other long shafts with pointed end and threaded end, sir dan said it is used to center the cone , but Why is it threaded???????? Bizarre design.

 

 Posted: Mar 18, 2016 07:24AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodave
Wow.
This is complete madness.
Sir Dan, as you appear to be the only one he listens to, can you just make a very clear statement telling him to "buy a spring compressor" ? That is about all we can do. Cheapskates have been trying to avoid buying the tool for the past 45 years, every time, the tool ended up looking like a good deal in the end. 
No chance Dave. Remember the throttle cable scenario with the $90 scooter cable conversion that he found in the back of the garage and bragged about, well that theory/idea is shot to hell due to resting on the exhaust manifold and water pump due to being too long and now he won't even pony up $15 for the correct part just wants to keep on greasing (which makes things worse) it.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Mar 18, 2016 04:52AM
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Wow.
This is complete madness.
Sir Dan, as you appear to be the only one he listens to, can you just make a very clear statement telling him to "buy a spring compressor" ? That is about all we can do. Cheapskates have been trying to avoid buying the tool for the past 45 years, every time, the tool ended up looking like a good deal in the end. 

It's been fun, but this place is done. I have no hatred, and appreciate the good times. But this place now belongs to Tony and his pink mini. 

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 04:37PM
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You've got that right bluebox.

Thanks for posting John, i figured they were expensive and not for his budget.

tb, don't you think that the people who make coil overs have tested them and their mounts ? You want to question them and yet you are the one throwing pieces of junk at your Mini and think that (in your eyes) everything is and should be ok.
All this over a rented spring compressor

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 03:15PM
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CA
And we go down the rabbit hole again.. This is madness.

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 01:58PM
jeg
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Hahaha -

//www.minimania.com/part/CK17/Coil-over-Kit-Spax 

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 12:19PM
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CA
JUST GET NEW CONES.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 09:06AM
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The only thing i need to find is a front coil over that can carry 333 lbs weight of the front of the mini. Thats according to J.T.  
But the picture shows that the upper mount is only welded on the metal sheet,, i mean who in the right mind will weld a mount on the metal sheet that will carry 333 lbs amd more on bumps. Gosh!! Bad design. He needs to have somehow welded the mount on the solid  frame, i mean not permanent but detachable or bolted on. 

 

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 08:52AM
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Knowing your budget you will stop liking it soon. I know of someone who used motorcycle coil over shocks on the front of his Mini off ebay for around $10 a piece, no spring compressor required lol.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 08:48AM
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Gosh! I just saw this now on google!!!

WHY DIDN'T YOU GUYS TELL ME this is possible????!! This is by far the most neat set up.. I like it..

 

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 08:20AM
 Edited:  Mar 17, 2016 08:22AM
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Thats one of the many disadvantages of hydrolastic , aside from being so pricey, if it burst the car is totally disabled because the tire will touch the arches and gets stuck!  I saw one on ebay and 2 front costs $1500, gosh dumb is the person who buys that thing.Lol
if i can really get my way to design an upper mount for coil over shocks itll be the best deal.  The lower part of the shock absorber is bolted in the upper arm(as orig design) now the mount can be fabricated and welded on the frame where the cone is enclosed in. That metal is sturdy enough to get welded on. And there are a lot of skinny ATV coil over shocks available on ebay, heavy duty. Im surpised nobody has done this,,, im gonna do it. ,, next project!!

 

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 04:30AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Reminds me of a Mini owner that stopped by my place and had a 3 inch long 1" x 2" piece of lumber strapped with cable ties to his upper arm between the bump stop and upper arm as his new aftermarket cheapest he could find front cones had collapsed, got him home.
I laughed when I saw this... Back in the day it was pretty much the standard solution for getting to the dealer for a pump up after working on the hydro system.  

The factory manual states that you could drive a fully collapsed hydro Mini at something like 30 mph for a sort distance if required ..... When I tried it I found the tyres fouled the wheel arches - probably because of non standard wheels and tired bump stops.  I seem to remember a small piece of thick plywood under each bump  stop gave enough clearance....

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 04:13AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg
Here's a thought - since I assumed you were talking about the rebound buffer and not the bump stop above the arm...

You could always just shorten the bump stop by about 1/4".  It won't solve your problem, but it'll make life a tad more comfortable until you get proper tools and new parts.
I think he is referring to the bump stops jeg.
If he did shorten them i can only imagine the discussion here when he gets around to replacing them (how do you get to the bolt) lol but it may well come to that if he keeps driving around on collapsed cones.
And so the saga continues.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Mar 17, 2016 03:03AM
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CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Round and round we go.

...

Minis with rubber cones don't need sway bars. PERIOD.
Dan, come over some day and give mine a thrash around the block.  You might just want one yourself...
Jeg:  I did say minis don't "need" them.

I'd take you up on that offer, but it is a long way to your place. How about we meet half-way?
Seriously though, it I did try your car, I KNOW I'd want them.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Mar 16, 2016 04:53PM
jeg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Round and round we go.

...

Minis with rubber cones don't need sway bars. PERIOD.
Dan, come over some day and give mine a thrash around the block.  You might just want one yourself...

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

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